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The Clairity Podcast
The Clairity podcast encourages our walk in relationship with Jesus. We cover topics that real people experience all the time and seek clarity through Jesus in His word, and through our experiences with Him. The Clairity podcast offers practical ideas and practices for the everyday believer who is attempting to navigate the life they’ve been given. The Clairity podcast also offers hope, light, and peace to those navigating difficult circumstances and tough questions, no matter your background, religious affiliation, or location.
The Clairity Podcast
A Humorous Approach
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Join us on this episode of the Clairity Podcast where we walk with Scott through his journey out of the LDS institution. In this episode we discuss all the points of his awakening journey, while also addressing the element of humor while waking up to the fact you've been lied to your entire life. Tune in for the full episode!
Hey everybody, and welcome to this week's episode of the Clarity Podcast. I'm your host, Claire, and this week's guest is Scott, and he's from Idaho, and he's 47 years old. And me and Scott have had a great opportunity to get to know each other, and it's been really fun to see his humor and how he has been able to use that as a gift as he's come out of the church. So let's go ahead and get right into it. Everyone has a journey they are walking. And along that road, we are met with bottles, road bumps, rain, storms, and sometimes just fog.
SPEAKER_01But through it all, welcome to the podcast, Scott.
SPEAKER_00Thank you.
SPEAKER_03All right. So let's just jump right into it. Why don't you go ahead and share with our audience kind of your Mormon background? What was your upbringing like in Mormonism?
SPEAKER_06So I was born in Taylorsville, Utah, lived in Taylorsville, Utah for most of my life. Where the temple is now was the last place that I had my stake center. So that was a stake center before they ripped it all down. Um I'll get into that a little more. My parents were both members of the church, large family, eight children. I'm the fourth of eight. And uh just growing up in the church, it was the only thing we had. There was a lot of activities. There was a lot more that I remember about church activity than now. There was a lot more happening. We had more activities. The activities felt more engaging. It felt like it was a community. Something that I remember that that's gone by the wayside. There there used to be basketball. There wasn't just basketball. There was there were actual tournaments with the region. There was even baseball or softball. There was volleyball. The baseball fields that we did the regional tournaments on is now where the temple is. So that was actually fields outside of that state center. And that's been torn down. Um there's you know, I just remember roadshows, uh all kinds of stuff. And big community, lots of we had a huge primary, tons of kids in the primary. And I I just I loved growing up in that. Um as far as going back, I am not a descendant of Joseph Smith, but I am a descendant of cousins of Joseph Smith. So Asail Smith, I can't tell you how far back Asail Smith was the grandfather of Joseph Smith. And then um my ancestor was the brother of Joseph Smith Sr. And so Silas, I think I'd have to look again. But then going down, so it's not something I like to brag about, but it's just something interesting. I know people will brag. But um I do have, you know, I am related through that. I just say I was related to a Revolutionary War hero, ACL Smith, right? Um, because that's what he was. But didn't really ever think I would leave the church. I served a mission in Guatemala in uh Guatemala Kids Sultanango Mission, 1997. Um just that was still one of the best parts of my life.
SPEAKER_03So just to do a little bit of a deeper dive, so when you were growing up, it sounds like you felt like you had community within the LDS church. And do you feel like that has changed since everything has changed in the church? Kind of will you explain the shift to us with people and your interactions with people as the years have gone by?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, there's there's a lot less uh happening at church except for the Sunday activ Sunday and maybe midweek activities with the youth. Scouting is gone. Um I kinda I love scouting, but I didn't love scouting. I didn't want to be an Eagle Scout. I did eventually because I was forced to. But um I I loved it. It was great. There was activity, there was stuff happening, there was things to do. It kept us occupied. That the the the replacement for the scouting program, um I see my kids going through it, but it's it's really lacking. There's no more um activities. We had like a Christmas activity. I remember one time they decked out the gym with like they made it look like a a you know, not medieval when I'm thinking, like a biblical kind of set with little marketplace and everything else and a manger in the middle. And they had us like one around and like we got our food in the little marketplace area. They gave us dreidles. We played with drydles, we learned how to play, you know, games that would have been played back then, and it was a huge activity, and there was a dance afterwards and everything, and it was it was neat. I've never seen anything like that now. Our Christmas activity is go sit down, eat, go, clean up, and go home.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's almost like there was more effort and more education for the kids as a result. Like kids are learning more things, people love each other more. There was more interaction and on a human level, and it seems like that's faded away in the church.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, and recently they split our ward. We moved into where we live because there was a there was a church right across the just we could see the steeple in our back from our back windows. And so we could walk to church and we thought, this is great, we can walk to church. You know, I mean, we bought the house when I was I was still very active and not never thinking I'd leave. But uh now they split the ward, they turned us into little puzzle pieces all around town, and the half of the ward where my kids had most of their friends is no longer part of our ward. So they don't we have trouble with them wanting to go to the mutual activities in the middle of the week, which generally aren't really planned out very well. I mean, they'll do some stuff, they'll go bowling, they'll they'll you know have different activities and stuff, but they don't really want to go because they don't have their friends there. And they're told don't go to the other ward.
SPEAKER_05They've gotten away with it. But it's it's difficult. Oh, they split they split up the neighborhood.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and that's interesting too, because if if you have a regular Christian church, you choose what church you go to, right?
SPEAKER_06And that church in our backyard that we can see not in our backyard, but we we can walk to, that no longer is the church that we're assigned to go to. We're supposed to go over a mile away across the freeway to get to the church. So walking to church is not feasible.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and that makes it so much harder on you as a family. So kind of going in the same direction with your mission, you obviously had a great mission. So what is it you're seeing with your mission compared to maybe some of the missionaries that are going out now? Is there a difference between your mission and what's happening in the LDS church now?
SPEAKER_06So I I don't really see what's going on with the missions currently. I you know, I've here in Pocahontas, I see missionaries. My daughter serves a service is in a service mission currently. Um, and I don't I don't know really how to explain it. When I was a missionary, I was excited about sharing the gospel. I remember reading through the Bible completely, through the Book of Mormon completely. I don't see the kids really reading that. They're focused on reading, uh they're proclaimed my gospel, try to preach my gospel. They're focused on that. Um, they're focused on the pre-planned lessons that were given. I mean, I didn't, I mean, I had the discussions, and the discussions was it. We had to memorize the discussions, but then we were told to read other things. And not everything was great. I mean, we read My Wells Word and Wonder, Jesus the Christ, um, I can't remember all the other approved books, and we kind of snuck around some of those. I didn't read anything that wasn't a church book. I actually remember reading because I was in Guatemala, and we were kind of like, should I be reading this? It was a book on um a Mesoamerican setting for the Book of Mormon. And that was really interesting for me, and it really made the Book of Mormon come to life because I was in and around that area. I knew of where some of these places were. Whether or not you believe in the Mesoamerican model or the Heartland model, I mean, it was neat to be there. My mission, I tried to focus on bringing people to Christ. That was what it was about. And it seems like it's really turned to bring people to church, bring people to church. I did see some problems with it. There was there was missionaries, and not all of us were this way, and a lot of us rebelled against us. There was like follow the rules, follow the rules, follow the rules. And I think I started that way and kind of laxed a little more. Not that I didn't want to do anything completely wrong, but it just really felt Pharisaical to be following this little rule book constantly. And there's so many things you can and can't do. And the ones that were really sticklers about it were ones that I usually never liked to get along with.
SPEAKER_03I think that now it's more focused on selling a church than it is on teaching the gospel. And that's you see that from you know your perspective. And you know, my dad always says he went on a mission and he came home a man. And now we see these young men that they go on missions and they come home the same. They're not throwing up on their mission. So Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, my daughter on her mission, she's in a service mission, and she's done very little service in the community except for church things, right? Bishop storehouse, DI, um, family search center, temple. It's all revolved around that. Um, there there's been a few places where she's helped out at different preschools and other schools and that, but not really much else outside of what our church organizations. So I I I can see, and I like that she has something to do. She's autistic, and it's difficult for her to really find some structure in her life. And so I like that, that she has that. But I look back at it and just think, what is she serving? It's is it the church or is it the community?
SPEAKER_03Right. Yeah. Well, and we forget that we're we're all human first, right? And so God wants us to serve all people, not just people that are in the church, not just church work. It's about everyone. Everyone has something to bring to the table, right? So that's a very interesting point. Okay, let's kind of transition a little bit. So you went on your mission, you loved it, you came home. What happened next in your life and what role did the church play?
SPEAKER_06Um after my mission, I came home, I went to college. I actually didn't go straight to BYU. I started out at Salt Lake Community College right there in Tayersville and uh lived at home, finished that up, and then I went to BYU. And I was working at the same time as a wildland firefighter. So I was taking summers in Colorado, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, and just gone forest fires for weeks at a time. Met my wife during a year that I was um in Idaho waiting for fires and just didn't have a good fire year. I was just stationed in Idaho and just sitting around. Met my wife, um, had a quick Mormon wedding, meet and get married. Uh, you know, very we we got married pretty quick. I my dad beat me. He was dating my mother for two months, I think. I'd have to look back at the time. But I was dating my wife for about four months before we got married. So it was a quick marriage. Um I I did feel like I was waiting too long because I was 25 when I got married. Kind of wondered how's this all gonna, you know. I I d didn't like the dating scene. It really bothered me. And honestly, it just kind of felt like this is the right person to marry, and we got married real quick. And honestly, it's been good. I mean, things are challenging still, but you know, it's uh overall I think it's been good. Some of the challenging parts is that she's still very much in the church, and I'm stepping away.
SPEAKER_03And that's a har really hard thing to navigate because the church is it's taught that the church is what seals you, essentially. That's what is sealing you.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, that has been a difficult part. Um, I I've talked before about the temple, and it really feels that they've that the church has really pulled people in with the temple and keep you in with the temple because that's where you remain worthy, you can keep your covenants. And to remain worthy and keep your covenants, you have to pay tithing, you have to go to church, you have to be a part of it. You're not supposed to listen to anybody who's against the church. And I'm not against the church. I don't believe you're against the church, but we've just kind of woken up and, you know, we're taking our own path because we feel that Jesus has let us out. Um, I don't feel like I'm against the church. There's things that they do, you know, in the leadership, but I I love the members of the church. There's great people. But uh the temple, I think, has really also taken away a lot from us because in the vows, the traditional wedding vows, there's about, you know, that we we miss that. And it's not a till death do you part because you'll never be back together. I've looked at that as till death do you part is is more of a till death is a end of the contract for this life. It doesn't mean you can't be together. But there's a to have and hold in sickness and health and wealth and in poor, you know, I don't, I'm slaughtering it, I know. But uh, we missed that. Instead of that, really what we were giving is a covenant to the church. Or remain in the church. I don't remember exactly the things. I've read it recently. But it's if you read through it, it's very different. It's not really a covenant between you and your wife, it's a covenant between a church and the two of you.
SPEAKER_03Well, and I you don't really know what you're getting yourself into before you go to the temple. You don't know what the ceremony says. When I got married, outside of Mormonism, I was able to decide what my ceremony said and what our vows were and what we were promising to each other. And it was so freeing because when you go to the temple, you have no idea what they're gonna say in that ceremony before you get there. So you get married in the temple, and what part did the church play as you were newlyweds, having kids, raising kids? What were you doing in the church at the time?
SPEAKER_06So in the church, I was many times, I don't know why they'd always choose me to be the young men's president. I was working two jobs. I had a job in the afternoon, and I was called so many times to be the young men's president, two or three times in these uh generally we went to Spanish branches. My wife is from Mexico, and we wanted to raise the kids learning Spanish. And so we went to the Spanish branches. They became wards mostly after that. They all weren't always that organized. And I get having young people as the young men's president or young women's president because they connect more with the youth because you know they just they were youth not too long ago. But for me, it was really difficult. I I was trying to make my way in the world. I wasn't always doing that well. I was working uh with uh one job in the morning and one job at night, and I couldn't take every Wednesday night off for activities, and I would say that. And the bishop would be like, oh, that's why you have counselors. And I'd call counselors and I'd and you know, they sometimes would, but mostly wouldn't. There just wasn't really any organization to it. This is a small branch, it's what we're talking about. Activities did happen. I did take some vacation time every once in a while to uh make sure that was happening, but it was difficult for me. Um there was a lot happening, but I I mean I I kept going. I I believed the church was right. I tried, I never wanted to turn down a calling and I never did, but I guess I kind of made myself kind of unavailable to uh to take callings. I think it was kind of noticed that I wasn't really available. I don't know. I stopped getting so many callings. I I've been uh clerk, I've been uh Sunday school presidencies, different things like that, elders quorum presidencies. But uh the young men's presidency was a difficult one for me to do. And I just don't understand why when I was the busiest in my life, young children, two jobs, that's what they wanted me to do.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I don't think they really look at the individual hard enough and to to really weigh what's going on in their personal life to can they handle this calling. And then to your point, they call a lot of young people to work with the youth, but I have a little bit of a different opinion in that some of, at least in my experience, some of the young women's leaders were so young that they're not giving these girls good counsel. They have no idea what good counsel is, they're too young to be guiding the youth. They don't even have any teenagers of their own. It's just kind of a mess. So, okay, sounds like you were pretty faithful. You tried to fulfill your callings the best you could. What was the role of Jesus Christ in your life while you were doing all of the church things?
SPEAKER_06You know, I I would really see Sunday as the time to rest and to read the scriptures more, to, you know, spend time as a family. Teaching our children, I think, was part of it. We tried to watch church videos, you know, that the church would put out for primary and for the youth and um try to understand that. I still enjoy some of them. I'm a little more wary of what the church produces now. But, you know, trying to teach my kids about Jesus, I I kind of recognize that Mormons don't talk about Jesus enough. And I tried to be one that talked a little more about him. And I just kind of felt this is needed, and you know, I just, you know, kind of would hear, you know, other people saying, Y'all need Jesus kind of thing, you know, and I was I was into that, you know. I have a brother who's kind of stepped away long before he he never really after leaving home, he never really went back. And I would tell him, You need Jesus, give it to Jesus kind of thing. But I felt like I'm speaking like a evangelical, you know, Protestant, but I'm a Mormon. And I would, you know, just think I I just felt Jesus was the answer. You know, we need to speak it more. So I I yeah, I I really started pushing that while I was still in the church, and I just kind of felt that's it. But I started to notice that sacrament meeting and Sunday school wasn't always directly about Jesus, and slowly it seems like it's crept in to have more and more reading talks about the presidency, you know, the first presidency and the apostles. What did they say at the conference? Let's review that. And there's a lot less focus on Jesus.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, totally. Once this started getting to the point where we were giving talks on talks and then lessons on talks on talks, that's what I was like, what are we doing? Okay. Yeah. So, all right. So you're in this place doing the church thing, trying to focus on Jesus. What was like, it sounds like you were kind of you had moments of like, huh, that's weird. But what was like your first moment of awakening that you were aware of was a moment of awakening?
SPEAKER_06That I was aware of. It would have to be during COVID, during 2020. That was when I was really starting to figure out something is wrong when I started noticing that, and I'm not saying that the actual well, even within the apostles, Bednar had attended a conference on Mount Sinai conference, where there was basically a I don't remember exactly how it was, but it was all the world religions getting together to make a statement to repent to Mother Earth. And like, that's paganism. This is not right. Why is an apostle involved in that? And then there was, she was, I forget her name, Eubanks. She was in the Blue Society, I believe, and she was talking a lot about global warming and UN and climate summits. And I, and this is stuff that you'd kind of you'd have to look to find it. It wasn't out there in the news, but I I just things started creeping into my you know social media feeds and I'd see something because I was following different groups that were, you know, against the whole COVID business. And I think it in that I started seeing more and more. I was like, something's wrong. I started noticing something's wrong. And I just started waking up to it more. But I I, as I look back on my life, there was more times that I recognized something's wrong. But I didn't let it feel wrong. When I was a kid and I was in Boy Scouts, we had shot BB guns, we had shot 22s, they didn't let us shoot anything bigger than that. But I'd seen what a bullet hole can do. I'd seen what a BB gun can look like in a paper target compared to a 22. And then we go to the church museum and they had the John Taylor watch on display. And I had heard the story that I think it was written in the friend. I'd heard my grandmother tell us about it. He was shot in the pocket watch and started falling out the window and then was shot from outside and fell back in. And that saved his life. The pocket watch saved his life. And I look at that and I think, what kind of guns were they using? And it's so small. I mean a BB gun could have made that, but it it probably wouldn't even have penetrated the glass. And I doubt that the the mob was using a BB gun. So that was where I started thinking, this is weird. But it wasn't until later on, I believe I was at BYU when I heard it, that they were they were saying, you know what? That story about the pocket watch, John Taylor remembered it wrong. And that should have thrown off some you know bells and whistles right away in my head, but it didn't. I just think, okay, well, yeah, he could have remembered something wrong. And I never really had a definition of what happened to that watch.
SPEAKER_03I don't think you could just forget if a bullet threw you back into a window.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Right? Like you don't forget stuff like that.
SPEAKER_06Other times I remember reading or watching uh there was a documentary that came out, I think, in 2007 on PBS regarding the Mormons. And I was into watching different things. I remember watching the CNN interview with uh Gordon Beheinkley and Larry King Light. I remember watching that and thinking, what a great moment, you know, the church is getting all this, you know, media coverage. And I think this next one came up because Mitt Romney was going to be the president or presidential candidate. And so they there was a documentary put out about the Mormons. I remember watching it, and I remember they talked about the September 6th, and they actually had some of the September 6 on there, and I hadn't even heard who the September 6 were up to this point. Because we don't talk about who's been excommunicated. We don't talk about who's left the church. That's not something you talk about. You just kind of forget them and hope people forget about it. But they interviewed some of them, and one of them was talking about what she had um made an oath to in the temple. And she mentioned slitting her throats and and and her and you know, slitting her gut. And I'm like, what? When did people do that in the temple? And she actually mentioned it was part of the of the uh the oaths that were done. And so I remember asking my dad about that. And she says, Yeah, but they're they're gone, so what? Was kind of his answer. And I thought, this is weird. Why did I not know? And I'd been going to the temple for 10 years at this point, and it was weird to me. I mean, the weirdest part is I went through and you still wore a white poncho and nothing underneath for the initiatory. And I have stories about that too. But it just hurt me that I didn't know and that that was a part of the ceremony. I didn't understand the context of it. I never really looked into it. I just kind of let it be. And it wasn't until another, you know, 10, 15 years later that I really started looking, you know, come to present time. I, you know, started looking and what was the temple ceremony all about. And it seems to me it was just a reason to, you know, bring polygamy in and hold people to an oath to say, don't talk about some of these things. Don't, don't, you know, blood atonement is in there. That's why they had the slitting of the throat, etc. If you talk about these things outside of here, we're going to kill you. It'll be a sin that you're worthy of death for, which just blows my mind that that's the way that Christ would work. I don't believe that's Christ in the temple. Um, but they've taken the endowment ceremony and and the sealing ceremony, which were all revolved around polygamy, and took out the parts that they could just kind of say, okay, well, this has become how you get into the celestial kingdom into a higher glory, and it's now not a sealing of polygamous wives. It's an eternal marriage. Now your marriage cannot last forever. This stuff is not even scriptural, not even in 132, Doctrine and Covenants 132. They extrapolate the little bit that they can to try and say, now it's about eternal marriage. And so the temple ceremony, to me, I've kind of deconstructed all that. I don't see it being helpful at all for anyone's salvation.
SPEAKER_03No, the temple ceremony was absolutely connected to polygamy. I have a brother-in-law that he was raised in polygamy. And when they changed it again, where they took out the part about how women need to obey their husbands as their husband obeys the Lord, my brother-in-law was upset because that had to do with polygamy. And he felt like that was an important part that they took out. And it had everything to do with the polygamy thing. So if we think that it doesn't have to do with polygamy, we need to wake up to that because it does. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. They can keep taking more and more out, but it's we still, you can, you can find the history. And they hope that nobody looks up the history. It's easier to find them, I'm sure, than it was 15 years ago when I first started hearing about the the blood oaths in the temple. But I then those few things happened. One other thing that happened to me that kind of started me waking up was um I remember I was a Sunday school teacher for the youth, and that was one of the callings I really enjoyed because it was just on Sunday. I liked working with the youth, and I liked teaching, and I have a lot to say, and I feel you know like I can be an influence for good on the youth. And I I think it went really well. But I remember one kid was talking about Joseph Smith put a stone in a hat to translate the Book of Mormon, and I know this because it's on South Park. So if you you are not aware of the South Park episode, no, I do not watch. No, I don't watch South Park. I did go look at that episode. I looked that one up to kind of see what's going on. It's I guess it's kind of funny now, but it's very sacrilegious, I guess you could say. But this this whole stone in the hat thing, I've never been told that. So the stone in the hat was was anti-Mormon, right? And South Park probably got their stuff from anti-Mormon. Well, not a few years later, they changed everything in the church museum, and all of a sudden they include a picture of a sear stone and say, this is the seer stone that Joseph used. I'm like, wait a minute, what, what? Why that that was anti-Mormon. I just told a couple years ago, I told kids in a Sunday school class that's not how Joseph translated the plates. And then you've got Russell and Nelson looking into a hat to say this is how we did it. And it just I this has been where the church now takes all these anti-Mormon ideas and says, Well, actually, this is true. And it hurts because so many of us have grown up being told, don't look at this, don't follow this, this is not right, and then say, Well, actually, this is how it was. And that includes, you know, Joseph Smith having 30-something wives. Now they've accepted that. When I was a kid, we taught, we're taught, well, polygamy was done because there were so many widows in the church and people needed to take care of them. And it really only happened after the pioneers came across, you know, to Salt Lake. And I remember reading in the Work and the Glory. Um, I read those when I was a teenager because I really enjoyed church history when I was in seminary. And I remember the Doctrine and Covenants year, and we read about that. And I decided, I'm going to read through these books. They're, I don't know if you're aware of them, they're a fictionalized um history of the church. And in towards the end of the series, there was polyg uh you know, polygamy was in there. And one of them was a test that Joseph Smith had put on. This is just you know a dramatized version that he that this man was supposed to give his wife to Joseph Smith. Oh, but it was just a test, and now I'm gonna steal you. And it was just weird. It's like, why would Joseph Smith or why would the Lord require Joseph Smith to take another man's wife? And then the church says that he did take other men's wives, and he took wives of you know 14 years old or less. It's just nuts.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Okay, so you woke up, so there's COVID, there's things, but there's the temple, there's things about Joseph Smith, anything else that that you woke up to?
SPEAKER_06So really my waking up was 2020. I ran a business. I was doing book fairs in hospitals, um, and it was a great business. I had come in and out of different jobs, and I I this is a business my dad did back in the 90s. I knew it was successful. I was ready to put myself into it. I had just been let go of a job that was a horrible, just difficult job to work at, and I had sued them and I got a settlement because them letting me go was really difficult. I took that settlement money and I made put that into the business and I was running a business and I loved it. And I did only about a year of it until in 2020 they told us at the hospital I was in in Boise, they said, you know what, uh, we can't have you um stay because COVID, I'm sure you've heard the news. Like, okay, fine, whatever. And you think, okay, only a couple of weeks. The two weeks, right, that we're supposed to take off turned into two years. And my business completely failed. And I was waiting to hear because general conference was coming up, and we had just heard general conference will not be held in person. It's all going to be remote, right? We're just gonna do a video. And I remember thinking, okay, well, fine, the church is behind that. I guess something's happening. And I wanted to hear what I wanted to hear something about what we were going through. And I hear good global citizen, I'm hearing, follow along with that, what they're saying. And I'm just like, this is not right. And it kept going on and on for a couple of years, and I then I see they're wearing masks in conference. And I'm already thinking this whole thing is a farce. I never agreed with anything COVID. I never wore a mask to church. I know it was one of the things I said I will not do. And I was looked at sometimes like, you know, people would stare at me and my family because I didn't want my kids or wife to wear a mask at church. And they mostly didn't. But they'd stare at us and we'd get comments and we'd be asked, why aren't we wearing masks? And why was that so important? And then I'm hearing more and more, and I see um Russell Nelson gets his shot in the arm and tells everybody this is a God send. I'm like, why are we relying on this? Why didn't we rely on priesthood blessings? Why didn't we rely on faith? Why didn't we do because that was forbidden. You couldn't go and give a priesthood blessing to anybody because you'd be too close to them. It was contagious. And I and I don't hear what I was expecting to hear from the brethren. I was expecting to hear, right, that that we need to trust in God and not in man. And, you know, for the church to take a stand, for those of us who are weak, I I had a failing business. I had no prospects. I was working the potato harvest, right? Because there was nothing else for me to do here in Idaho. And I was waiting to hear something, would the church take a stand for me? But they didn't. And I finally heard celebrities, and I don't usually listen to celebrities, I don't usually care about celebrities, but I'd hear different things happening. And the one that really struck me was Rob Schneider. He's a crude comedian, and I never watched his movies growing up. I mean, I've seen him in a few different things, but he was like that crude comedian I didn't ever want to hear. But here he is talking about COVID's a joke, COVID's a farce. Let people, you know, have their freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of gathering. And I remember another was Kurt Cameron. Um, right, he's very um Christian, right? He has a, you know, he has his uh ministry that he does and that, and he was trying to pull people together to sing hymns in public outside with social distancing and they shut him down. I was like, these are people that are standing up, okay? A Christian who, you know, is not part of my faith, and a crude comedian who my mother told me not to watch.
SPEAKER_03Right. It's like if the secular people can get it, why can't the church get it if it's the one true church, right?
SPEAKER_06Like Yeah. And I mean, it kind of led on to where it really turned around for me is when I watched Who Killed Joseph Smith. And I had gotten into Connor Boyak. Somehow I found his um his videos and I started watching those, and they I liked what he had said. He's he he just dives deep into different topics, and one that really resonated with me was the word of wisdom. And, you know, where did it really start where we started saying we cannot drink coffee, we cannot drink tea. Where did that start? Where did it start that we couldn't drink alcohol, use tobacco, drink coffee to get a temple recommend? And it wasn't during the time of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young. It was actually during Hebrew Grant. And he did all that history, and I was able to listen to that like, okay, this really makes sense. But why did it happen? Because of prohibition, because we wanted to be like the rest of the world. And then, you know, the rest of the world left prohibition, and we're like, nope, we're we're we're holding on to it. And I don't believe drinking coffee is bad, but I don't drink alcohol personally. I don't want to. It's not like I'm leaving the church to drink alcohol. I never have, and I don't feel like I've lived 47 years of my life without it. I don't feel like it's anything I need. But why do we hold ourselves to these standards in the word of wisdom when it's not given as a commandment? It is given as a blessing, you know, it's given as a warning. And it's a warning not against Budweiser, but against Pfizer. Right? It's against it's not Budweiser, it's Pfizer. But these pharmaceutical companies that are trying to, you know, force a vaccine on us that is not helpful but harmful, this is what the word of wisdom is about. Anyway, um, I watched Who Killed Joseph Smith because I've heard about it through Connor Boyack's videos. He had said something about, you know, um, I think the secession crisis. And then I kind of looked in and I saw, well, this there's this documentary, and I watched that, and finally somebody could explain to me what happened to John Hitter's watch. And finally I could understand there was a lot more going on in that jail cell. And I had been there before when I was, just after my mission, we went to Nauvoo and the Nauvoo temple was had just been rebuilt. And I went again recently last summer because we had a family gathering out there. And this time of in Carthage jail, I'm looking. I'm paying attention. I'm seeing there are no marks of any gunshots on the outside of the jail. I wish that you could see more within the actual room that they hadn't plastered over the walls again. But it just doesn't add up. And I think that people are starting to wake up to it, and I really appreciate Justin for making that video and explaining things that I'd never thought of and really going into depth on what really happened. And that woke me up because if if the conspiracy can go back that far to Brigham Young in a conspiracy to kill Joseph Smith, what does that mean about the church now?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think that Justin did such a good work because if the narrative about how Joseph Smith was killed is wrong and it's been a lie, then what does that say about the whole rest of the church and all of the things they've been telling us for so many years? Like he went back to the very main event that is gonna change everything for everyone if you realize the truth about what happened in that jail.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, that's really cool that that woke you up more. So you're waking up to all these lies. What were you learning about Jesus Christ at this time and what was your relationship with him like?
SPEAKER_06So I don't, you know, I I I focused a lot on what was wrong with the church first. I but I I kind of appreciate that I found Justin instead of you know some of these others that have completely left the church and don't even watch, don't even believe in the Book of Mormon. Right. I I found that there was more of a community of people that still believe in the Book of Mormon, right? You I I didn't think that you could do that. I never there was never there was never a space for that in my mind. It was either you're all in or you're out, right? So I found a community of people with uh different uh Facebook groups, and they're the pneumos, right? If you want to call them that, or you know, the awakened Mormons, that we've we still believe in the Book of Mormon. I still believe in. I couldn't drop it. Yeah, I I remember reading it when I was when I was younger in seminary and reading it all the way through, and I I really enjoyed it. I remember teaching it on the mission. I believed this. I told people, read this book. This book is amazing. I still believe that. I couldn't, I couldn't leave that behind. So I was looking at all the different problems of the church, but I was still clinging on to the Book of Mormon in the Bible, but I really didn't associate Jesus to this until honestly, I saw your podcast and I see I really like the way that you've done your podcast and you've talked about leaving the church to find Christ. And it really kind of clicked with me. Like, I do need to focus more on Christ. And I I appreciate the interviews that you've done. And I feel that um it's been a good place for me to learn and hear other people talk about leaving the church, but staying close to Christ. And I, this was uh last year, I'd been laid off of my job. I had extra time. I was uh, you know, I was doing well. I had a really good severance package, trying to find another job, but I had all this free time and I just decided to start reading. I read Isaiah and I remember I forget the guy's name, the older man, cowboy. You talked with him about Isaiah, and I really felt I need to read Isaiah again. I picked up Isaiah and I read all the way from Isaiah to Revelation. I didn't do it all too quick, and it took me a number of months, but I I was just looking at the the Bible with different eyes. And when when um Easter came around, and I've never I'd never done this before, but I've really enjoyed The Chosen, the series of The Chosen. I remember seeing um Jonathan Roomy on Tucker Carlson. I see Tucker Carlson every once in a while, and I thought, oh, this will be interesting because I really like this actor. He's in The Chosen, he plays Jesus, and he gets on and he's talking on him. It was Ash Wednesday. I didn't realize the date because I never pay attention to Ash Wednesday. And he's talking about Ash Wednesday, he's talking about Lent. And I've always figured that's just a Catholic tradition. What is that? That's I mean, I I I don't need to do any of that. And I don't think that many churches follow it besides the Catholics, maybe a few other Protestant churches. And it just really, I started to feel this could be a way for me to get closer to Christ. So I really felt like I should do something. So I figured, what can I do? And I'm thinking, how can I come closer to Christ? What am I gonna do? I'm not gonna fast for 40 days. I'm not gonna give up alcohol. I've already done that, right? Because I know a lot of them will give up drinking for 40 days. But I thought, you know, I was at the time going to the gym a lot, just put in heavy metal music or, you know, loud rock and roll music and just, you know, lifting heavy metal while listening to heavy metal. I thought, what if I started getting more into Christian music? And I'd already had an introduction to Christian music. Mercy Me is a favorite band of mine, and I really enjoyed their movie that they had. I remember watching that with my wife and really enjoying the story. And I kind of looked into more of their music. So I'm like, I started getting my um, you know, online radio, Pandora, Mercy Me station, and I get that going. I start hearing so many other artists, and I'm really enjoying these songs. And I've just I'm listening to Christian music. I'm giving up rock and roll for 40 days. And I did that, and I was reading more. And it felt to me like that was really my coming to Jesus and understanding Jesus more and really understanding the reason why I was leaving the church was so that I could cling to him more. And some of the memes, and we'll get into these, they they deal with that. I, you know, what matters most? Is it the cross or is it the Masonic um underwear that we have? What's a better symbol for Jesus? And you know, I'm wearing the cross, right? I wear the cross more often. I actually got a ring that was really cheap. It's kind of broken, but it had a cross on. I was wearing that a lot until it broke. But uh I I never was the Mormon to wear a cross. But I I kind of came out of that thinking, what am I? Where am I? And I came up with the idea that I am a Christian first, I'm a Mormon second, and I'm never a brighamite again. So um, and I just continued on. I've uh picked up the Bible more, and I I just and since we're reading Old Testament, I was the only part I hadn't read yet was Old Testament. I decided I'll read up the Old Testament, but I don't want to do the come follow me, right? So I started in Samuel. I've been reading from Samuel on. I actually picked up Job and then I read Samuel on, but I'm just gonna bounce around in the Old Testament to avoid the come follow me, right? I'll I still attend with my wife uh just to keep peace in the family, but I try to attend a non-denominational church from time to time. I've attended, there is a group of the Church of Jesus Christ, the Bickertonites, that's in Idaho Falls, and that's not too close to me, but I've been up there and I I enjoy just seeing how other churches do their worship. And I really enjoy hearing more talk about Jesus Christ than going to a boring brigamite ward and hear another rehashed conference talk for sacrament meeting talks and then in Sunday school and priesthood the same thing. So I've I go to church for about three hours on Sunday now instead of just a couple because I had another hour.
SPEAKER_03All right. So you're waking up to all these lies, and everybody kind of has to find a coping mechanism as they're waking up to all this stuff. Because when you find out you've been lied to your whole life, it's like a betrayal. You feel completely betrayed. So tell me a little bit about your coping mechanism, and let's get into how you have seen humor to be something that has been helpful for you.
SPEAKER_06So as I started to wake up, and after I'd seen the uh Who Killed Joseph Smith, and I was watching all the podcasts that Justin put out that I was putting out, you know, watching the podcast Rebecca put out. And at this time I was my job was in Salt Lake, so I'd drive back and forth, and I had a couple hours to listen. I was just driving back once a week, then back. And Michelle Stone and listened to all these podcasts. That was kind of a coping mechanism for me. But as I found the Great Apostomeme, I really saw the humor. And I I've always told dad jokes, and I love doing that, and I just thought I need to start doing this.
SPEAKER_03And the great apostomeme is a Facebook group, right?
SPEAKER_06Yes. It's a Facebook group, and there's people that make just hilarious memes. If you're a member of the church, you understand it. Um, if you're leaving the church, you understand it even more. Um, you know, most true blue members of the church aren't going to enjoy the humor that we have there, but nothing too crazy. And I started making a few memes and I did it anonymously for the longest time. And then um, just at the same time that I was leaving my job last year, and I was just before I was laid off, I created my own um my own name in the group because I still wanted to remain anonymous. And I created the name No Way Jose, which Noah Joseph is how that translates into Spanish, Noe, Noah, Jose. No way Jose, you get the joke. But my idea was did Joseph Smith practice polygamy? No way, Jose. And that kind of worked into my name. I started posting a lot more. Um, I did the You Might Be a Brigamite meme, where I take you might be a redneck and take some of the quirky ideas that we have in the church and turn that into well, you might be a brigamite. And uh done a lot more memes. If you we ready to share some of them now?
SPEAKER_03Yep, let's do it. Okay, here's the first one.
SPEAKER_06So this is one of the first memes I made. Um I was born in the church. What about you? I was born in the hospital. And it's just I started taking just dumb jokes, I knew, because growing up, LDS, you so hear so many people talk about I was born in the church. I was born in the church. You know, you hear the converts and you hear, or I was born in the church. And that was just a dumb joke that I've told many times before, and I turned it into a meme.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, and being born under the covenant is a big deal because my parents were converts, and they'll tell you they feel like they were the slaves in the church. But being born under the covenant, you get the higher callings, you work your way up faster. There's there's a lot to unpack with that meme, but that's why it's funny.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, and the whoever sees the meme, it may be different, they may take it differently than how I took it. And I I enjoy that about it.
unknownFor sure.
SPEAKER_06It speaks differently to people. Um, here's one that I got a lot of uh likes on this on the Great Apostomeme, the Book of Mormon. I was just kind of thinking, it is it just another testament of Jesus Christ? Because I, you know, I was thinking, why do I still believe in the Book of Mormon, right? Why do we still believe in the Book of Mormon? There's so many people that have left the church that tell you it's it's false, and there's so many different things that they'll say, you know, they claim historical evidence. But with all that said aside, it's a it's an amazing book. It really is for our time. And I just started writing, why is it important? It's not just another testament of Jesus Christ, it is a manual on the doctrine of Christ, a warning against secret combinations, a warning about priestcrafts, and a witness against the practice of polygamy.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm. I love that.
SPEAKER_06And then this one, I made this um about Easter time last year. Um, this goes out to all those who have been let out, so shown the door and uh told not to come back, right? The bishop here is saying, Now that your church records have been removed, nothing can save your soul. And if you're familiar with the hymn, not some among the Mormon congregations, but the nothing but the blood of Jesus, because nothing but that will save us.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm. Which that's very real too. That holds a lot of meaning in that lots of people leave the church and they're told you can't wear your garments, you're not gonna have your family, you're not gonna have your salvation, you pretty much lose everything when you leave the church. So it's kind of dark humor a little bit.
SPEAKER_06It is, yeah. But honestly, the truth is the hope is in Jesus. He paid the price. Only his blood uh can be the way that we're saved. Absolutely. This one I like. I made a bunch of these. He forgot his temple recommender, you must show your temple recommend here at the Last Supper. Where's Judas going? I think he forgot his temple recommend. And I like this one. I made this, um I posted this on Easter last year. The cross was enough. The temple. I I I was really dis deconstructing the temple and a lot of the different things I had thought about it. I had taken off my garments during that same time. I had stopped wearing them. And that's difficult when you're married to you know, to a wife who still wants to continue in the church because she what's she going to think? That's it's difficult to just remove your garments and that's done, you're done with it, right? Because people can start thinking, what sin did you commit? You know, why are you not wearing your garments? Yeah, I was able to explain to her I don't believe that they're of God, and I'm trying to not, you know, trying to step away from a lot that I of the traditions that I've had. I didn't get into too much with her. I have talked with her about different things. I mean, the marks are actually ways for demons to enter your body. I didn't get into that with her directly, but you know, that's what I what I do believe because I I I'm going on a tangent and I do this a lot, I'm sorry. But I as a missionary, I could just tell you about on my mission, I did actually feel um like a night paralysis, a uh nightmare that comes along with the paralysis. I wake up in the middle of the night, I had a bad dream. I can't move. And it really felt like what Joseph Smith described in uh The First Vision, that an evil dark power took over him and he could not move. And it feels like that. It feels like, you know, a few minutes, but maybe it's less than a minute, but I can finally move, you know. And you know, I remember being taught in seminary, raise your arm to the square and tell, you know, tell cast off the demon. Right. And I did that many times, but it really wasn't until I took off. And I and this happened to me on my mission numerous times. And as I came home, it stopped and I started feeling it again. Demons are real, they exist. You know, and I it's hard for me to talk about it. And I started talking to my wife about it, and she's just like, You're crazy, what's what's wrong with you, kind of thing. But when I took off the garments, I never felt it again. I had never felt a night terror again where I felt like I couldn't go back to sleep because there was something evil that was going to take me over and not and I couldn't move. And if I ever feel a presence of it, now I never raise my arm to the square. All you need is the name of Jesus.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_06All you need to do is is rebuke the demon in the name of Jesus. And that it really doesn't happen. And it hasn't happened. I haven't felt taken over since taking off the garments.
SPEAKER_03Wow, that's amazing. And what an important thing to to bring up, simply because if you look at just the mental health epidemic, we are all, you know, trying to deal with the mental health epidemic, especially with our children. But if we teach our children about spiritual warfare, how much more prepared and armored up are they going to go into life if we actually teach spiritual warfare instead of, oh, you're just crazy? Um, the demonic realm is so real and we've got to learn about it so we can fight against it. So I love that you bring that up.
SPEAKER_06Um this kind of goes on with Lent, right? And the social media fasts, right? Um, the social media fasts were done. Um, so people claimed that they were done to keep people from looking into Russell and Nelson's family and news that was about to come out with them. But I had to make this one. Joseph Jesus was led into the in by the spirit into the wilderness to fast from social media for 40 days, which does sound like a great thing. It's honestly a good thing. But I just, yeah. If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it upload Facebook and Instagram news foods.
SPEAKER_02Oh man.
SPEAKER_06This is a great one. We have there was a challenge on Great Apostomine to make some Pioneer Day memes. You have the kids pushing a hand cart 1300 miles across. Mom, dad, why do we have to do this? And then the kids nowadays, like my own kids, mom, dad, why do I have to do this?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04I was one of those kids. I was like, Dad, I don't want to go to this. What are we doing? But he was the bishop at the time. So I was like, I'm going to track. Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_06Brother Adams, why are you not wearing your temple garments anymore? Because the only marks that matter for my salvation are upon the hands, feet, and side of Jesus Christ, my savior.
SPEAKER_02I like that one.
SPEAKER_06That one that's that's not a funny one. That's a thoughtful one.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_06This is a fun one too. So my wife saw you at the grocery store the other day. She told me you weren't wearing your garments. I'm very concerned. Can you tell me about this? Yes, this concerns me too. You're saying that your wife saw me in public. She did not even say hello. Instead, she reports to you about what underwear I was wearing. There's humor. There is humor in the fact that underwear is holy.
SPEAKER_03Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_06I do a lot of that.
SPEAKER_03Well, and one of the comments we get sometimes on these videos is the the true believing members will say, the church doesn't command us to garment check. But everybody still garment checks. Like you still look to see if people are wearing their garments. It's just this weird culture thing. Like that this happens in real life, okay? Like, what a weird thing to judge people on, their underwear, of all things.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_06Um, this was another one I made during Easter last year. Brigham, betrayest thou the son of man with a Masonic handshake. I feel it is a betrayal. It is a betrayal to think that the Masonic handshakes are what get us into heaven.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Because we're denying the power of Christ.
SPEAKER_06Exactly. And then, okay, you might be a brigamite. So I made I've made more than 50 of these, but you've got the ones you like the best. And if you wear long shorts to cover your underwear, but they still peek out occasionally, you might be a brigamite. If our Lord and Savior, for whom your church is named, does not qualify for a temple recommend he'd drink wine, right? You might be a brigamite.
SPEAKER_02Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_06You'd rather wear Masonic symbols than a cross. You might be a brigamite.
SPEAKER_03That is the crazy thing to me. The thing that the symbols on our underwear protect us more than the symbol of the cross, when the cross is all throughout scripture.
SPEAKER_06I have to believe that the symbol of the cross saves us. I think it's a reminder that Jesus died for us. And that's that's all it is. I mean, I see people wearing crosses that don't act very Christian and maybe just wear it just as you know an accessory or to look cool or whatnot. But I, you know, I I don't I don't I don't feel that way. I've seen many people do that, and I don't always wear a cross. I do have a lot of Christian t-shirts that feature a cross. I do have a ring that I don't wear as much anymore. I was thinking about getting another one, but it's a reminder for me. And you know, it's a testimony of Jesus.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Those Masonic symbols, I just don't, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, and you can't turn the cross into a an idol either. Like it's truly a symbol too. It's it's a symbol of a reminder of our Savior's suffering for us on the cross because that is what saved us. So exactly.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. If you buy your underwear at a bookstore, Deseret Book, you might be a brighamite. One of the kids was that you'd go to the distribution center. They had them near the temples, they had them in Salt Lake, they're everywhere, right? They were everywhere, but they turned it all into Deseret Book.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_06Now you buy your underwear at a bookstore.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I always thought that was so weird. Actually, my husband is not from Utah. So when we got married and he moved to Utah, and we'd go to Desert Book, and I'd be like, Everyone going in there to buy their garments. And he'd be like, Yep. Wait, they buy their underwear in the bookstore.
SPEAKER_02Like he was like, so he didn't understand. So yeah.
SPEAKER_06If you think that secret handshakes get you into heaven, you might be a brighamite.
SPEAKER_03But they're sacred. They're not secret.
SPEAKER_06Oh. Yeah. I get tired of hearing sacred, not secret. Well, they're not sacred, they're Masonic.
SPEAKER_03They are Masonic. And this is the question you ask people that say this. Okay, well, can you tell me what they are? Because if you can't, that's a secret.
SPEAKER_06So I've done some memes on that. You got pictures of like George Bush and Thomas Monson shaking hands, and you can see it's a Masonic handshake.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_06I've I've made some on that too.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_06If you believe that it's okay that some of God's children were not worthy of his blessings until 1978, you might be a brighamite. That's one that really I mean as a kid that bothered me. And growing up, it really bothered me too, the black, uh, blacks not having the priesthood and not even preaching the gospel. The gospel was to be preached throughout the entire world. Jesus asked for that when before he ascended into heaven. He said, Go ye into all the world. One of the first people that we read about that was baptized was an Ethiopian eunuch. Don't tell me he wasn't black. Why in the world did the church decide that blacks were no longer allowed to have the priesthood and that we shouldn't bring the gospel to them? When Joseph Smith himself had had baptized black people, Green Flake, okay, I don't know if you know the story of Green Flake. He was the slave of my fourth great grandfather, William Jordan Flake. And they they uh they lived in the South, I believe North Carolina, and they uh were preached the gospel, right? They moved to Nauvoo, I believe they gave him up. But Brigham Young tried, I think, tried to do something with him and others to put them into slavery and again when they were out in Utah. But uh he he was the first uh black man to come to Utah, and he was a slave of my fourth great grandfather, but he was a member of the church, and I don't know if he had the priesthood or not, but I mean he followed Brigham, so it's probably taken away if he did have it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, wow. Yeah, it's Brigham put forth this idea that the black people shouldn't have the power of God, and that I'm sorry, that's so wrong in so many ways. So, because it's not the color of your skin that determines whether or not you have power from God, it's whether or not you follow God. That's it.
SPEAKER_06Exactly. And and if you follow any other um, you know, pastors and that online, there is one named Ryan Miller who went to Nigeria recently. And if you watch the interview he had with that bishop in Nigeria, that's that's just an amazing story. God works on everyone.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_06Just an amazing story. And the persecution that they have in Nigeria just for being Christian, but they but they believe in Christ. They truly do. And it's great to see stories like that.
SPEAKER_03Definitely.
SPEAKER_06If you feel that a green apron is the perfect accessory to your wedding dress, you might be a brigamite. You have to know to know.
SPEAKER_02It's like a green fig leaf apron.
SPEAKER_03Oh my gosh. I just remember as an ornaments work here worker watching the young couples that were about to get married, you know, like walking through the celestial room to do their ceremony and just thinking, do I really want to get married looking like that? Like I just yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Oh, okay. Yeah. Follow the covenant path. It's like the yellow brick road, magical place that takes you somewhere that's just a farce.
SPEAKER_04Yep, pretty much. That wow, we could do a whole episode on that movie.
SPEAKER_06I think so. Yeah. Behold, the apricot trees are white and ready for harvest. My kids thought that popcorn came from apricot trees. No, it's I mean, it's just a fun song, honestly. Right. I I I still enjoy the song. It's not bad. It's not like I take time to sing it every day.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, me neither.
SPEAKER_06There were fun songs. Primary was fun when I was a kid. Anyway, yes. The Mormons are out there saying the mob killed Joseph Smith. So what? They can't prove it. I don't do a good mobster voice, sorry. But yeah, they can't prove they they can't prove that the mob killed Joseph Smith, and that's why I made that one. It's there's no proof that the mob killed Joseph Smith.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Okay, get into this one.
SPEAKER_06This one's so I remember seeing this as this was during the as I was just waking up. I remember somebody posted this video, and I had just gotten into the Masonic stuff, and and anyway, I never thought much of these hand signs. I never really looked into it, and then I saw, you know, a lot of commentary on that, and I started looking into Illuminati hand signs, and you can see this all over Hollywood and you know, the music industry and others doing these signs, but it's an Illuminati sign and it's uh quite satanic, apparently. But anyway, just how crazy it was. I turned it into you know, the young women's presidency or saying the new essays about Joseph Smith are turning out to be difficult for many. And you'll understand them better if you're reading with your Illuminati glasses.
SPEAKER_02Oh man, that's dark.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. And then, oh, I love this one. Um, what are the two great commandments? I mean, love God, love your neighbor, but does the church really do it that way? So I had some thoughts about it. What do I hear most from the church? Well, it's pay 10% of your income to your cor to the corporation. This is the greatest of all commandments. And the second is like unto it. Follow the prophet. I could have spelled profit with an with an F. Follow the prophet.
SPEAKER_03Follow the money. Yeah. No kidding. No kidding.
SPEAKER_06That was another thing that really bothered me. The SEC fines came out at that time, and I stopped paying tithing, or I stopped paying as much in tithing to start out with, just because I'm thinking, why does the church need all this money? Why am I paying 10% of my total income? Anyway. Um and I then I stopped paying altogether and I've I've tried to find ways to use my money to help others uh that are truly in need.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_06Anyway, um, this one's great from the office. If you know this uh CPR scene. Look, everyone, I'm Joseph now. Joseph was the CPR dummy that has face removed, right? So Joseph Smith or so Brigham Young could put it on and pretend that he was Joseph. Just like that famous talk in August of 1844. Which I now doubt happened.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, me too.
SPEAKER_06No contemporary evidence. This one really um hit with a lot of people. Um, choose the Redeemer. I turned the T into a cross. Um, you know, I've I I enjoyed the CTR ring. I had a CTR ring. I I I have one again. My wife gave me one for Christmas after everything we've been through. But um, I I don't I like the CTR ring. It is a good thing to choose the right, but truly we shouldn't just be choosing the right. We need to choose the Redeemer. Yes, he is what makes us righteous.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, because he's the one that directs us to what is right. You don't know what's right without Jesus.
SPEAKER_06And something I find more within the Christian community is the fact that we are sinners. We always fall short. No matter how much right we choose, we always far fall short daily. We fall short of Jesus. And he's the one that makes us righteous again.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_06Choose the Redeemer. If the gospel essays were a house. The Gospel Topics essays, yes. I love that one.
SPEAKER_04Can you explain that one for those people that listen that are not Mormons?
SPEAKER_06The Gospel Topics essays are really where a lot of people find trouble with a lot of people found trouble with the church when these started coming out because it's where the church started to say, well, Joseph Smith actually did use the stone in the hat to translate. Well, he actually did have a ton of wives, and he did have marital relations with his wives and so many other things. It was it's it the gospel topics essays were supposed to be a way to do some damage, you know, damage control, but they really turned into causing more damage because the church is starting to put out a lot of those things that we all grew up learning were anti-Mormon, and they say, well, actually, this really did happen. And if you talk about the gospel topics essays and what were in the gospel what are in the gospel topics essays, in Sunday school, I actually heard about somebody being excommunicated for doing that, for being a Sunday school teacher when they had just come out, read parts of the gospel topics essays. So is it really accepted or not? They're kind of hidden on the church website or in the app, but they're so off base because I mean, for me, not believing that Joseph Smith practiced polygamy, for me, I mean, it's putting the stairs up to the window instead of the door. You're building it wrong.
SPEAKER_03It's just backwards.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Okay. I think that was our last one.
SPEAKER_06That was the last one.
SPEAKER_03Scott, tell us some of your views about how how humor can be a healthful way to cope with these things. Because I know that the criticism here is that, well, you're just mocking the Mormons. You're mocking the Mormons, but my thing is that we were Mormon. We lived this way. So kind of tell us a little bit about your perspective. I still am Mormon.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I'm a Christian first and a Mormon second, like I said. Um, you know, I I kind of looked at it too because there's so many things. Don't you know, make fun of no evil speaking of the Lord's anointed, no loud laughter. Those have been taken out um partly from the temple ceremony, but I think no loud laughter is no longer there. But who is the Lord's anointed? Jesus is the Lord's anointed, right? I mean, and I'm and as I'm reading through 2 Samuel and Kings and that, and the Lord's anointed were the kings, but they were saying don't know evil speaking of the king. I think there's some of that messaging in there. I don't think that's right either. The leaders of the church, as long as they're leading us towards Christ, that's good, but there can be wrong that they do. And if you take a look at mocking in the Bible, what was Elijah doing with the priests of Baal? He was mocking them. Okay, I I imagine it was a humorous scene, right? They're all praying from morning to noon for fire to come out of heaven, and Elijah's there mocking them. Is your God asleep? I mean, people claim that is he meditating would be a way of saying, is he using the toilet? Is he, you know, otherwise occupied? Um, but then you look at it, Jesus mocked. He called the Pharisees hypocrites, he called them whited sepulchres. I think there is a place for it. Don't mock what is sacred. And I really try hard. I saw a meme that somebody posted on a different page recently. Chuck Norris died, and somebody had Jesus in the background while Chuck Norris was wrangling the devil. And the claim was, okay, well, Jesus is using Chuck Norris to put down the devil. And I saw that, like, no, this is this is not something that we make a joke about. I love the Chuck Norris jokes, they're hilarious. But really, Jesus does not need Chuck Norris to defeat the devil. Jesus is the only one who could defeat sin and death, is the only one that could bind the devil. So I called that one out in the comments. And people say, this is just a joke, just take it. And like, well, no, this that's that's that's joking against something sacred. So, no, there's a time and a place for it. I think the humor is helpful to kind of navigate the situation that we're in. Not everybody's gonna get it, not everybody's gonna laugh. But um, I do hope that some of the memes that I make help people to think and to start looking into those things that we're told. Don't don't read that, don't listen to that. That stuff's anti Mormon. And I did that for the longest time. I wouldn't. I was afraid to listen to or to watch the documentary Who Killed Joseph Smith? Because there was so much chatter about hey, you know what, she doesn't really have this right, this is against the church. And that's some of the things that I hear people say, but wait. You're against the church. Like, well, no, I'm for Jesus. Okay. If the church is doing things that aren't for Jesus, well, I'm not for that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Absolutely. I think that we all, the more you wake up, the more you start to think that these things are funny because we were the ones living these things. We were the ones doing these things and believing the lies. And so you either laugh at yourself or you get bitter and angry. And I think I'd rather laugh at myself.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. I mean, you've got to laugh at yourself. I mean, I think that God gave us humor. And I believe, and I'm watching The Chosen, really, I love that show, that series, because it really brings Christ to our level. I watched the church's productions of the Bible videos, and there's so much pious piety, you know, they're so pious and holy, and they would never do or say anything in a mean way. They talk softly and you know with authority. And I don't believe that that's how Jesus comes to see us. And that's why I really enjoy. And maybe it's not the perfect, you know, it can't be the perfect um, you know, dramatization of the life of Christ, but I enjoy that they bring it down to a level that all of us can understand. And there's humor in it. You know, there's there's a few moments of humor, but then there's also moments of you know heartfelt um kindness and love and you know, and the fact that Jesus is king and that you know only he can save us. And I and I I love that. And I think that we need to find more of that with our worship.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. It really just brings us down to our our level of humanity. We're all people, Jesus knows that. He meets us where we are, and then he takes us to something better. So I just love your attitude about that, and I love that we can kind of laugh at these places that we've been in. So thank you, Scott, for sharing your story. How do you find clarity in your life now?
SPEAKER_06You know, I I thought about it because I know you asked this in every show, and I think I find it in leaving behind false traditions and clinging on to Jesus.
SPEAKER_03Leaving behind false traditions and clinging to Jesus. Thank you so much, Scott, for coming on the podcast.
SPEAKER_05Thank you.
