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The Clairity Podcast
The Clairity podcast encourages our walk in relationship with Jesus. We cover topics that real people experience all the time and seek clarity through Jesus in His word, and through our experiences with Him. The Clairity podcast offers practical ideas and practices for the everyday believer who is attempting to navigate the life they’ve been given. The Clairity podcast also offers hope, light, and peace to those navigating difficult circumstances and tough questions, no matter your background, religious affiliation, or location.
The Clairity Podcast
A Deliverance Journey
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Join us for this week's episode where we discuss with Suzanne the intense pressure members of the church are put under to "perform" for their salvation. In this episode we discuss how anxiety inducing checking all the boxes was for Suzanne, and how sweet freedom in Jesus is by comparison. Tune into the full episode for all this and more!
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Hey everybody, and welcome to this week's episode of the Clarity Podcast. This week's guest is Sue Ann Montague, and she currently resides in Missouri and she's 53 years old. And let's just go ahead and jump right into her story. Everyone has a journey they are walking. And along that road, we are met with potholes, road bumps, rain, storms, and sometimes just fog.
SPEAKER_00But through it all, we just got to get a lot of the go ahead and give us a little bit of background.
SPEAKER_01What was your Mormon dynamic growing up?
SPEAKER_02Okay, well, the nuts and bolts. Hi, it's good to be here. And um so I am 53, so I was born in 1972. I lived on Canyon Road in Springville, Utah. So Utah County, Happy Valley, um, right next to BYU. So in the shadow of the um the Y, I guess we would say. And um my parents, uh, so I'm the youngest of 13 children. So I have eight sisters and four brothers. And my parents were, I guess, like baby boomers. They were married in 1949. So my oldest sister is 21 years older than me. So my mom had 13 kids in about 21 years. So she likes to say like 21 years in diapers. And these weren't just like, you know, throwaway disposable, these were cloth diapers she was washing. So my household, um, so my dad was in the military. He joined the Navy. He was 19 years old when World War II started. And so joined the Navy and then got out of the Navy, saw my mom in the choir when she was 16. There was, I'm sure, an immediate connection. And then he decided to serve a mission, and he served in the Montana, I don't know what it what it was called back then, but in in Montana among the um Native American tribes. And he spent two and a half years, and so when he got back, my mom was almost 19, and they had written letters, um, beautiful letters back and forth corresponding over his mission. And then they got married when she was 19 and he was 27. So um they started right away to have a family. My dad was interested in farming. He um spent a lot of time, we call it the ranch. Um, and then they did own a farm. So farming and we always had a big garden. My family was buried by the book. So by the time my parents got married, I think like David O'Mkay was prophet, and they were starting to preach like family home evening and family counsel and all those things that kept family together. So the family doctrine became really strong when my parents first were married. And so they decided, committed together, that they were gonna do everything that the prophet asked them to do so that they could be faithful. And um, so they were, they were super faithful. So by the time I came along, um, all of the habits and culture in our family was well established. So the youngest of 13, um, one of my sisters was married before I was born. So I have a niece that's exactly a year younger than me. She was born on my first birthday. So my mom and one of her daughters was pregnant at the same time. Um, you know, and and it's interesting moving back to Missouri, like sometimes people bring up the polygamy thing, especially when they hear about my siblings. And I was like, nope, all one one wife, one husband, like one single single pregnancies, so no twins. She and my dad felt like that was their calling to bring um 13 souls into existence. And so we just they lived on faith. And um, tithing was definitely a big deal. That was like very like almost like a magical quality. Like, if you pay your tithing, God's gonna provide. And um, we experienced that many times, lots of miracles um related to finances and things about providing. And so when I was five years old, my mom began working outside the home. And so that was a different shift. So that was something that was very different because she had been a stay-at-home mom, and my dad had various jobs construction, farming. Um, by this time, he had kind of settled into working at a hardware store. So he had a regular job. And um I excelled in high school. I did sports in high school. Um, did so the young women's personal progress came out when I was in young women's. And so I was gung-ho about that. And girls' camp, and you know, so we had family prayer, family counsel, family scripture study, um, family home evening, you know, all the things. Like ours was the family, like no TV on Sundays. My dad would dress in his like white shirt all day on Sunday. Um, Sundays were were special and and good. And so I never really thought to question. I had a few questions in when I was in high school, but it was definitely frowned upon to question anything that was like authoritative. And so um I went through high school, excelled in sports, ended up playing sports in college, and I really didn't see anything outside of my own faith base and my own culture until I went to the University of Wyoming. Um, I played volleyball there, and I saw, so I basically lived when I wasn't in class, I was in the institute building there. And it it kind of made me feel safe. I could see that there were some other lifestyles that I'd really just only heard about in high school. I know there were kids that were um consuming substances and you know, having relations that weren't um appropriate, but for the most part, all the kids also I just want to mention that in my graduating class, probably nine to 10 out of the kids that were in my class were in my ward and lived on my street. So we were all born that same year. And like I had two cousins, um, actually three cousins that I first cousins that I went to high school with. Um, one migray, and then two that were older than me. So very family oriented. My high school was a three A high school, so not big but not small. Um, and our class reunions really feel like a word activity. I mean, it's just like everybody's Mormon. I I only knew like one, maybe one other non-LES person, and then maybe, maybe even one other less active, right, in my entire graduating class. So it was well established, right? Just completely. And then so going to Wyoming, I I looked around and I saw some other lifestyles, and I was like, okay, the world needs the gospel, the world needs the church. And so after I finished my eligibility, I went on a mission. I served in the Dominican Republic. I remember at that time um going deeper into studies. So I had always read the Book of Mormon, and I'm I'm a journaler since age of eight. So very faithful, journaling, reading like conference talks and doing all the studies. And then on my mission, I had a chance to go deeper into the doctrine. And I remember having some questions, and I remember thinking about things that didn't make sense to me. And one of them was baptism of the dead. And I remember having someone confront me, a Christian lady, and she was just saying how that was blasphemous. And I was like, I don't really see that, but okay. And so then after my mission, I had some um, I would say I didn't know exactly what it was, but I would say anxiety and depression now that I know those symptoms and it has a name.
SPEAKER_01Right. Okay, so I'm gonna interrupt you. So before we go on, let's backtrack just a little bit. So did you have any moments in childhood or teenage years that were awakenings or questions you had? You mentioned you didn't have very many questions, but did you have any like difficulties that you were like, why is this happening? Maybe explain that to us a little.
SPEAKER_02Um honestly, from what I remember growing up, there was not even like a possibility of questioning anything.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Um so no, I I did not question anything. I didn't even know there was anything to question. It was it was presented as if this is the way to live, and everyone should live this way, and everyone should belong to this church. And I didn't even know that there were Christians that lived a very similar parallel lifestyle. Right. I had I thought all anybody outside of the church, because in my experience, if you left the church, your family fell apart because we had um there was a family whose husband was unfaithful, and their family just kind of fell apart after he left the church. And so that is what was taught to me that like you can't be a strong family unless you are LDS. And so um really never, never any questions until my mission, until I, until even at University of Wyoming, everything that I saw was confirming of my lifestyle and the way I grew up. It was like confirming my bias.
SPEAKER_01Okay, all right. So then you were on your mission at age 21, right? Because that's when the age was older.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I was actually 22 because I finished my um, so I turned, I think I turned 22 and then, or turned 21, finished my volleyball season, and then I left in that December. I had some kind of cool confirming things with my call and um uh which you know I won't go into, but kind of miraculous, like this is the right path type of thing. And so I really felt good about going on a mission. So I went in May of '94. And then while that summer I turned 22. And so it was kind of like um, I I really felt called to go because I wanted to rescue my brothers and sisters from this like lifestyle that I was seeing at college, you know? And I did run into other Christians. Like I met one of my teammates who seems like she grew up very similar to me. Her family's very Christian, and they actually did have like a family night on Monday nights, which I thought was kind of cool. But she ended up having some substance abuse issues and basically almost lost her life in that and then kind of had an awakening to Jesus. And so I thought that was pretty cool, but I didn't really, I was just like, oh, maybe, you know, maybe I can share my faith with her and she can become Mormon someday, you know. So that was kind of always what I was thinking because that's what we're trained to think, right? Um, that our way is the best way and the only way. And so that's kind of where I went on my mission thinking that. And then when I got back, um I hadn't finished school because I just didn't want to stay in Laramie and I really felt like I needed to go on a mission. So I had probably about maybe three semesters left of school. And so I was looking around to find what I should do next in my life and praying about it. And I had some fun experiences with different jobs that were fun and interesting, and then I felt like I needed to finish my degree. So I ended up at the University of Utah, and that's where I met my husband's brother, and I met my husband, and it was kind of like a volleyball connection that brought us together, which is awesome. And so um in between those times, I experienced what I would say uh anxiety and depression, um, and really just a darkness. And I I kind of like felt like I needed to do something um in order to make the marriage thing happen. And so I would fast once a week and go to the Salt Lake Temple once a week and pray every day that I would meet my eternal companion. And now I know that really what God was wanting me to do was um spiritual warfare, but I didn't really know that term or know much about that back then. And so I just felt really like concentrated on praying for my companion, praying that we would meet, praying that we would be able to have family.
SPEAKER_01Did you feel like you had anxiety because you weren't married yet and you were getting into like the older years by Mormon standard? Um, do you think that's partially why you were feeling this anxiety about getting married? That was partially it.
SPEAKER_02Uh, the pressure to because that was the next step. I mean, my parents were talking, and not in like a bad way, but just like almost like, what are you doing to get out there and date? You know, I I remember one of my brothers said, you just need to wear some tight jeans and put some lipstick on, and you'll find and I was just like, Oh my gosh. Oh my god, seriously, like the worst. Anyway, so it was there was definite pressure. So I was like 25, and that's when it really was old. Oh, so old, like 25, and I felt the pressure of like needing to get married because that is so entrenched in the culture. And not that that's a bad thing, but the way they go about it is not good because there's a lot of shame and guilt, and there's a lot of like hiding, and you know, just like just bad energy that goes along with being single and having these urges and drives and not knowing what to do with it and hurry and get married so you can like fulfill that.
SPEAKER_01And it's just like Yeah, but there isn't a lot taught about how to be a health, a healthful single person in the church. It's very just like get married as fast as you can so that you don't mess up. It's like yes, it's it's very much like that.
SPEAKER_02And and me, I found a way to connect with God, and I feel like I hit like age 26, and it kind of was like, you know, I can see myself being happy no matter what happened. But I spent a year or two of misery because I thought it all depended on me. And so I think like by 26, right before I started dating my husband, I learned to relax and just realized that God's in charge and I can be happy no matter what happened. And it was almost like the pressure, I just took the pressure off myself. I still felt it from the culture though. Like all of my my brothers and sisters and aunts and uncles, who are you dating? Like, you know, how's that going? You know, and it's just relentless. Like it's so it's it's very, very difficult. But my husband was 29, and so you know, he experienced a lot of that too, and had his own journey and own realization. And so I think by the time we actually started seriously dating, um, we were both to that point where we were happy with ourselves and we had found uh uh a relationship with God that we could carry into our marriage. And so I think that was a gift, that was a blessing.
SPEAKER_01I think that's a very valuable lesson for the singles that are waiting, is that it's okay to wait on the Lord for your spouse. No amount of temple trips is going to get your spouse to you faster. And I was the exact same way. I always felt like this panic of like, I have to figure this out because so many people were like, Well, what's wrong with you? You're like 26 and not married yet. And I'm like, My husband is seven years younger than me. I was waiting for him to grow up and I just didn't know it.
SPEAKER_02Like, you know, it's like God does have a plan, and it's okay to let him tell you the steps and take it one day at a time and not be so stressed and worried and to really enjoy because I had a lot of great experiences that I never would have had had I got married at 19, right? And I'm saying it's bad to get married at 19. I'm just saying God has an individual plan and purpose for your life. And when you find that, you're free, you know, you're free to then move within those, you know, those parameters. And so absolutely.
SPEAKER_01And then I think when you are learning to live God's plan when you're single, then when you're married, you are still following that pattern where you're you're committing to somebody and you're living that plan together. But God is the center because you learned to do that when you were single. So there's definitely some benefits of learning that when you're single, learning the fruits of the spirit, learning love, self-control, patience, all those things, because you need all those things when you get married. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02That is that is exactly it. Because when you're when you're in the spirit, then it's almost like you don't need the law, right? Because the spirit is just gonna guide you one day at a time and make it possible for you to live the law. So you don't have to live in fear and worry about, you know, the doings, right?
SPEAKER_01You can just be Yeah, because when Jesus is in us, it's natural to live the law. It's natural to live the commandments that He gave us. And it's not so like grinding of like, I gotta do all these extra things. So I make sure I'm like checking myself all the time, going to the temple, doing work for the dead, doing our church callings. It's a lot more just, I don't know, it's healthful to the nervous system, which I think that goes back to your anxiety. What are we doing to ourselves when we're just grinding all the time because we feel like we have to earn our way for these blessings? That's exactly.
SPEAKER_02And so I think that's the doctrine that really caused me a lot of trouble because we got married and we decided that we weren't gonna wait to have children. We weren't gonna prevent children. And so, like ours was kind of a honeymoon baby. We got married in March and had our first baby the next year in January. And so, and after that, I had my five children in eight years. And so my body was under intense pressure. And during that time, my husband was in the bishopric elders quorum president. I was in the primary presidency. Um, I had major, major callings, music, music uh leader, nursery leader, you know, all those different callings. We moved several times trying to figure out because my husband hadn't really established himself as a bread earner. Like, what am I gonna do to um to provide for my family? And little did I know that that also is the job of God. He is the provider, and you just get to do, and everyone has enough, and there's enough for everyone. And, you know, in God's abundant kingdom, he is not gonna let you starve ever. Like he will always provide. And I knew that growing up, like that was very strong in me. But at the same time, there's a lot of pressure in the culture, in the Mormon culture, to have everything right away, like uh, you know, a nice house and Martha Stewart type of stuff. And so it was just very, very stressful. And so we moved, we started out in Springville, Utah, lived there for about seven years, moved to Orim, bought a house there, sold a house, bought a house and moved to Idaho, Meridian, Idaho, and we moved to a ward and you know, wonderful people. Like, there's I I hope people don't misunderstand that like Mormon culture is so good and and it's so beautiful in so many ways, right? But the the enemy will sell you a thousand truths just to sell you one lie, like he will tell you all these things and get this, but the lies are so deceptive and so destructive, right? And it's hard to even recognize it really. And so I mean, I was on a path to destruction, but all the while I was living the perfect Mormon life, right? I did the mission, got married in the temple, had a beautiful wedding, felt just so happy and so much light in that ceremony. Um so you know, God is merciful and he's not gonna let dogma or doctrine get between you and him. He's gonna try to try to to connect wherever you will let him connect.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And so absolutely walk us through your mental health journey a little bit. And so you're a young mother, you're in the Mormon church, doing all the Mormon things, checking all the boxes, and you just have this like crippling anxiety, depression. What did you do for it at first? And then what did you learn along the way as you kept doing things to um so at first?
SPEAKER_02I I have a sister who also walked a similar journey as me with mental health, and for similar reasons later that we have discovered. So at first, of course, I went to the Doctor, just my regular medical doctor. And um, I went down the road of just mainstream medicine. Um, I took several different kinds of depression medication and did not feel good about any of it. And so the internet was was coming out. It was like 2006. So I'd had uh three, three children, three of our girls, and really was suffering, suffering energy, um, mental, like just trying to feel happy and trying to have energy and trying to, it was just a struggle and more than I thought it should be, right? I was just like, what is going on? And um so I went the traditional route and I took uh let's see, like Zoloft and Zimbalta, three different medications, and just went off them cold turkey because I just did not feel good. It it did not feel like the right thing for me. And then I started doing some research and I started um diving into at the same time my fourth baby was born, and um we took her for a well check visit at age nine months, and they recommended five shots because we had like we didn't get her in for her six month or something, and so they recommended five vaccines at a time. And I immediately just something inside me went, ugh, and I didn't feel good about it, but of course didn't know enough to to really press that or question or lean into that doubt because as Mormons, we were also trained to doubt our doubts and not our faith, right? And to not trust that inner internal um compass, which I think is one of the most destructive things that is done in in that uh particular religious institution, which is like to get us to doubt our own compass and our own journey, right?
SPEAKER_01There's so much in the culture about that because they want you to trust the leaders. They want you to trust what the leaders are saying, and so then that spreads into well, then do we trust the medical leaders and the government leaders and the education leaders when all of these systems are corrupt? But we're supposed to trust them because we're supposed to trust our church leaders. So all the other leaders must be fine too, right? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it's very, it's very much authoritative and outside of you. And so I was just like, okay, I'll listen to the white coat and this will happen. Well, um, then my little baby, who's nine months old, had severe diarrhea for the next six months. And so uh along with my research on depression medication, right, and realizing the hoax of that, that basically they only have to prove a 51% efficacy. And it's basically like a placebo, you might as well be taking a sugar pill. And um, a lot of the drugs that they are uh encouraging doctors to give to patients are not long-term studied and like double blind placebo, all that is it's just they're just pumping out these drugs and without the science behind it, you know. So um anyway, um I I recognize the same thing with the vaccine industry and and following the money of that. And so my illusions about the medical community, those blinders just like fell away. And I was like, this is a scam. This is a complete scam. I cannot believe that I am listening to someone outside of me when I could just go to the source who made my body, and he can tell me what I need to do to get healthy. And so my sister and I went on this journey of okay, what is this medical system? Where did it come from? The internet was here, so we researched the history, we would talk about things. Um, the energy, um, energy healing and energy medicine was coming out in full force. And I think rightly so, because the internet people are starting to wake up and starting to understand, hey, I can come and learn these things for myself. I don't have to just rely on the authoritative uh voice or opinion. And so, for good or for evil, I went down that rabbit hole as well. So um, I read a lot of books on and a lot of articles on vaccines. I read a lot of stuff on the medical community, and it kind of shifted me into the alternative medicine world, um, herbs and um homeopathics, and then energy medicine, like Donna Eden. And I went to a Carol Tuttle uh class. And, you know, all the while, like my family, um, some things were super hugely helpful, which I I literally would go to the library and Holy Spirit would say, turn to your left. There's a book sitting on the table that you need to read. And it was some book on parenting or on like herbs or natural remedies or something like that. And super helpful. Like Fly Lady was one of those that helped me organize my time as a mom. And I still use those systems today. I don't know if anybody knows about Fly Lady. Um, it it's it's just great. Like all these little things, when you tune into the source and he's directing you, there were some of some the first times in my life where um I was getting personal revelation that was very specific. And a lot of it was aligned with um the counsel that we were given at church. And I felt like confirmed in that. I was like, oh, good. I'm like calling the prophet by getting, you know, we're parallel. But there were a few things um that I started to recognize that spirit was telling me that wasn't exactly like, hey, you need rest. Maybe you shouldn't accept this calling right now. I I chose to like accept callings, but that Holy Spirit, you need rest. You're you're pushing too much. And I felt that, but then still felt like I couldn't say no. It it was like wrong or sinful somehow to say no to my bishop. Or like when my bishop, this was when we were still in Springville, and bless his heart, good man. He's just following protocol. But my husband was in the bishopric, I was in the primary presidency, and we were having financial struggles. And in order to receive help from the church, he was requesting that my husband go and work additional hours at the welfare facility. And I just broke. I was just like, you have gotta be kidding me. Like we are as a third grade elementary teacher, and he is spending like multiple hours outside of his school day writing papers and preparing lesson plans. And we are trying to struggle to feed our family, like you've gotta be kidding me. You know, like I I've that was a huge like a wedge that that actually later turned out to be a good wedge because it allowed me to question the system, you know, and to question this whole like paying tithing and offerings and how they're given. And are are we really taking care of the poor? Like are we really doing all that we can do because the ward that we were living in had a lot of um uh government housing, had some government housing in Springville, and the same thing with Oram. Um, and and I was assigned to a lot of the ladies in the in the ward that nobody else would visit. Um, and like schizophrenia, uh, hoarding, and I was able to talk to these women, and apparently other people hadn't. They hadn't been visited in like months or even years. And I'm not saying that's anything special about me, but just the fact that I think God was trying to tell me something. He was trying to show me the people that were not being taken care of and that were not receiving help from directly from the savior that you know they were hurting. There were lots of people that were hurting and poor and depressed and demon like influenced and afflicted, you know. And so I was seeing that firsthand in my own life as well as people that I would visit. And it was every single ward, every ward we uh moved into, which were several, um I was I was assigned uh people with mental mental issues and poverty issues, and you know, I just think God was really trying to show me like it's not all perfect, you know, it's not the shiny Disneyland Apple church that that it looks online, you know. So anyway, I began to question some things just about the systems. And um, of course, when you're depressed and you're fighting for your life, you're gonna be looking around. You're gonna be looking at outside sources. And I felt like the church and the church was so tied to Christ that I'm like, maybe I need to just look outside. And so um some of the new age philosophies and ideas looked pretty great. And not that I was thinking that they I wasn't looking outside of Christ, I was thinking that it was all under the same umbrella. Because also in the culture of the church is like every truth belongs to the church. Whatever's true out there is part of it, you know, and not realizing that you need to make sure that those truths, you have to prove scripture with scripture, prove the prophets with the prophets, right? And I think in the Christian culture, um they do a little better job of that. I think Mormons are pretty gullible, like whatever the authoritative structure says is true and you can accept it wherever it is. And so, me in my naive mind, um I went into a lot of these. Um, I I took some theta healing classes, which later I figured out is borderline witchcraft. And it's just like I didn't know, right? I had no idea that there were people out there who were astral projecting and, you know, um remote viewing. I had no idea any of that existed, right? And so I learned about that stuff in Theta Healing and it opened some things up in my mind and some some spiritual battleground. Um, and so I think it just let in a little more darkness that was that I perceived as light. And so I had some uh spiritual attacks. I had to be um delivered from a demon possession, which was pretty crazy and scary um a couple of times. And so I kind of I cut that off and I was like, okay, I can't, I can't do that anymore. Um, but I noticed that there was something peaceful and something good about that as well. And so it was very, very confusing to me because I'm finding more spiritual connection going this route of the new age, which it wasn't called that back then. It was like energy medicine or alternative healing modalities or whatever. And some of them are scientifically based, and some of them are inspired by God, and some of them are not, and so you have to discern. And so, because I cut it all off, like I went, I kind of slumped down into now what do I do? You know, because this church and all of these rituals and all of these works are miserable and taxing and and bearing, you know, they're just so heavy on me, you know, and I would go into the temple, and most people like, oh, I love going into the temple, and I would feel nothing, I would feel empty, you know, and there were times where I would, but there were times where I just used it as a nap, like literally, I'm just gonna, I knew when to wake up at the right times, I knew the right signs to do, and then I would fall back asleep and have some interesting dreams and then just be like, so anyway, um it was like I was just like, I can't, no phones, no kids, okay.
SPEAKER_01Oh, wake up, do my thing. Right. I think it's very interesting the part of your story about energy medicine, because I know that that is kind of like a bad word in these await communities, like, oh my gosh, energy medicine is so bad. But I think we all need to have compassion on everybody and where they're at because when you are suffering and you're getting no answers in what you were raised around your entire life, like you're gonna go out and look for answers. And I think we've got to let people go out and find their answers. And if they are following Jesus, they will come to what is true and what is not. So there's a lot of compassion, I think, that needs to be in that area as people are searching to different things. They will find out through Jesus what is right and what is wrong. Right. And and no fear. Like truth can bear inspection.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Jesus the way the truth and life, right? And so we don't need to be afraid. He is another thing I learned from my Christian friends is that he's pursuing us more than we're pursuing him. Like he his hold on us is tighter than our hold on him could ever be, you know. So he wants us to find him and he wants us to know him. And so that was really powerful. So after I came, so in that time where we lived in Idaho, I came across, like I I was my mind started to be filled with questions. So uh questions about priesthood authority, questions about um polygamy, questions about the temple ceremony. And a lot of those questions I researched and I found in the scriptures, and I was like, okay, I can, I can, I can deal with this. Like, but some of them I was told by Heavenly Father to just wait, you know, because we talk about they talk about putting things on the shelf, right? When you don't know. I I've just heard that in several of these coming, coming out of Mormonism stories, how they put things on the shelf. And so I did that too. And I read uh a biography of Orson Hyde, I think it was. And so I had a lot of questions about Brigham Young and polygamy. And that book like solved it, supposedly, because I read all about the spiritual experiences behind Brigham Young and you know, hit his testimony of Brigham Young. So I was like, okay, I'll just, I'll just put that. But but all the while these things are nagging at me, right? Like I'm I'm participating fully as a member. I have callings and um but still have questions, like major questions. So this was this would have been like in the 2011, 2012, 2013. So just just lots and lots of questions still and journaling. I was a journaler since age eight. I can go back and read my little journals of like my dog dying or whatever it was that impacted. Like I was a journal writer. And so all through my my time as a single person and as an early married um with young children, I was writing in my journal. And that therapy, that is um connection with God, you know. So I would literally have two ways, two-way conversations in my journal with God, right? And it's more um intentional now, but back then it was just more like just my habit. And so I would highly recommend to anyone. It is so powerful. So I would write those questions in my journal, and the spirit would lead me to scripture, and the spirit would lead me to websites and lead me to answers, and it was very amazing. And some of those things I really did feel like the spirit was like, just wait. So I I do believe that the answers come and sometimes we are called to wait because more information is forthcoming or whatever. And so um we went through a couple more moves. We were in Utah now and trying to trying to live the the Utah life of like the big house and the appearance of prosperity. And, you know, I had learned some things about manifesting, and so we basically manifested a house and manifested a job and a new career for my husband, and we were kind of on the up and up, and then I started to have like dreams and visions of end time scenarios, and so I was like, what do I do with this, you know? And so I just felt like we needed to sell our big, beautiful Lehigh home and buy a trailer and live on my parents' property.
SPEAKER_01What did you learn about manifesting through that experience? Because you shared with me what you learned about manifesting in your translation.
SPEAKER_02This is so important for people who are dabbling in the new age.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02So when you are with Christ Jesus, his sacrifice is sufficient, his work is sufficient. And so we can receive anything from God that is God's will through Christ because he satisfied the demands of justice, right? But this whole other way that people are seeking to enter the kingdom is through other methods of sacrifice. And so we are now very, it's in our faces right now, the occult and what they're doing. Our whole system of government, medicine, education, um, financial, religious, spiritual, it's all run on this opposing sacrificial um worshiping of other gods. And it's it's like sex magic, ritual magic, and it is all based on not accepting the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and requiring sacrifice of other things. And so as I was manifesting this house and this job and all the things, so um, we later sold our home, rerouted. My husband worked in that job, but has since lost that job. And the spirit taught me that anything that you receive through manifesting comes about through some kind of balance and sacrificial, it's not through grace. And so if you ever choose to go outside of that or part of that, you will lose and have to pay a price for whatever you receive through manifesting, because it is not the right way. So that scripture that says whoever goes up another way, um, except but by me. So Jesus is the gate. But uh, if you if you choose to go, so the adversary is a legalist and he's an accuser. And so whatever we receive from the universe, from using those um faith-based things, which manifesting is one of those, but you're doing it through other means. You're doing it through not accepting the sacrifice of Jesus. You're not humbling yourself, you're not accepting God's will for you. You're kind of doing the whole Garden of Eden, like, I'm gonna go on my own will and create my own way, you know. So you have to sacrifice something. And so we ended up because we got closer to Christ, ended up, God's like, you need to get rid of that house. You need to end that job. I want, I have a plan for you and a path for you. And it's better than anything you could imagine, right? But it takes time and it takes submission, takes humility, and all those things we have to do the right way through Christ, right? Through him and him alone. Like we cannot accept any other gate or any other any other hired servant.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, well, and the topic of manifesting is a double-edged sword, because if you can manifest good into your life, then it also carries with it this idea that you can also manifest bad into your life. So people have even said things to me like, oh, well, you caused your own pain in your life because you think about it too much. Like, I don't think that's how it works.
SPEAKER_02Sorry. So evil, but I was kind of going down that road because I actually worked as a practitioner, a health, um, a health coach, right? So I went and got a certificate in quantum from the quantum university and studied under Joe Dispenza and like all the guys, which there is there's beautiful truth and there is science in there, right? There is some things that are that God is allowing to be um to to be given to the world so that we can understand our bodies better, that we are also a triune being, that we have a mind body, we have a spirit body, we have a soul, conscious mind, right? Just like the holy holy trinity. Um, so we are one, all in one, three in one, just like God is. And so there are some truths and some things that are coming forward. So in order to fully heal, you have to heal on all those levels, right? And so Christ does that instantly, like he heals people spiritually, mentally, physically. And so um sin is just separation from God, right? And so he unites us from God. And anyway, there's a whole that's a whole nother thing, but but that energy world is just another way for us to live. In a separated state from God to try to go up another way, try to access some of these other realms and portals and things that give power that really do have power, but not from Christ.
SPEAKER_01And that's the most important part is that everything needs to be centered on Jesus Christ. Because there is, I mean, yes, energy is all around us. That is a reality, okay? But it comes through Jesus Christ. We have to understand the source. So some of these words that have been hijacked by the New Age movement, it's still okay to meditate. So centered on Jesus Christ. Okay, meditation is okay. Praying to God and asking for things that you need. That is okay. That's not manifesting. Okay. We have to remember what the source is, and that's when you can gain clarity in this area of I need to heal and I need to get all of my body balanced and healed, including my energy systems, but you're not going to all these outside sources and making all these outside contracts with outside sources.
SPEAKER_02And you're using your God-given imagination to connect with Jesus. Right? Absolutely. And we were given minds to think and imaginations to imagine. And there is that is the process of faith. Faith is seeking for things that are true that we hope for and imagining as if they are real. Right. And fear is just the opposite of faith. It's it's just manifesting what your fear, what you're afraid of. So it's like I've just learned and I've learned some from some really great mentors, Jamie and Donna Winship, and they are all about like finding your identity in Christ and who he created you to be and connecting with him using your imagination and prayer and meditation and all of those things. And I it's so interesting because what they're saying, it's just couching it in this like safe with Christ, uh, like all connected with him, like connected to the true vine, right? And that's what he meant. So we are bearing the fruit that we are meant to bear that is good and true and pure through Christ because we're connected to him. And so those fruits come out and resonate in our lives. And it's beautiful. So I so just back to my journey. So coming out of like the energy world and really kind of navigating that. And the whole time, I I was just like a child. Like I was curious. I was like, okay, well, how about this? And Holy Spirit would lead me, and then he would say, Okay, you've learned enough, turn around. And I would. I I left Theta Healing, I left like energy profiling. I studied with Julie Rowe for a while, turned around and went, you know, out of that. And it was almost like he was like, There are truths being taught, but here's the lie. And he was showing me, like, cool, here's the lie, here's what's gonna separate you from me. So turn from it. So I would always turn back to him. So then um March of 2020 comes along, and our family's living in a trailer. My husband's working from home around my parents' property, and so we're homeschooling, and uh we were actually at the beach and oceanside when everything was announced, as far as like no church, um at home church, and all the all the restrictions came about while we were in California. So we made our way back. We had a wonderful time at the beach in in like late February, early March. Um and then we made our way back, and it was like, now we're doing church from home and wearing masks and all this craziness was happening. And so I prayed about it and I just asked, I was like, God, what do you, you know, what do I need to know about this? And he he was like, it's a deception. Don't worry about it. That like don't participate in it. And so I was like, I just knew because of my understanding of how the body works. Like I had studied enough of like um alternative methods of healing to know that the the whole medical community is very money-driven and very suffering-oriented. It's it's a it should be called sick care, right? Because they keep people in suffering mode just enough to stay alive. And don't get me wrong, like not all doctors are bad, not all people in religions or education, like I'm still in public education. I'm here for because God wants me here, right? I know that there are people who still are in the LDS church who see what we see that feel that they are called to be there for whatever reason, right? And so we have to do what Jesus says, which is always what Jesus did, which is always do the will of the Father. So we need to connect to the true vine, know the will of the Father, and be obedient, listen and respond. So I was listening and responding to God for us. Don't get the vaccine, don't wear those masks, don't separate from people, and you will be fine. Like this is this is a deception. And so we spent our time during COVID living with my uh my parents who were in their late 80s and early 90s, and they were not afraid, but they they wore masks out of like they were a little less snarky and less like you know, challenging. Like I'm one of those, I'm just like, once I know something, I'm not gonna pretend, you know, I'm not gonna try to please people. I would walk into Costco, no mask. Everyone in the store had masks, and I was just like, whatever. So it didn't bother me. Like I never was afraid of what people thought. I I always try to be respectful, but at the same time, it was just maddening to watch people just give up their sense of reasoning and their sense of like right and wrong and just listen to the authoritative voice, right? And so that was very, very troubling. And then when um you know, the prophet came out with like rolling up the sleeve, getting the the jab, and I was just like, that's that's insanity. Like you are literally following the world. And so I took that to God, and that is when God said, Okay, it's time for you to separate, it's time for you to get out of this, because something, I don't know, but something in the spirit realm, um there was a shift in direction, right? And so I just read Galatians chapter five, and it's Paul talking about basically what you said about like love and how once the Holy Spirit is in you, the law becomes like you don't need laws to tell you how to behave once Holy Spirit is in you, once that truth in your your being is within you, right? In you, and it's producing fruit. And so he's like, What? In fact, I want to read that if you don't mind. Yeah, it was just like so powerful. And I think this is what the clarity that came to me during COVID, okay, because it was it just the the lines and the sides became very, very clear. Like, okay, this is clearly the church is taking sides, and it is not on the side of Jesus, it is the side of following the world systems that are part of the beast system. And so here's what he says: he says, so Christ has really set us free. Now make sure that you stay free and don't get tied up again in slavery to the law. And he says, You were getting along so well in verse seven. Who has interfered with you to hold you back from following the truth? It certainly isn't God, for he is the one who called you to freedom. But it takes only one wrong person among you to infect all the others. A little yeast spreads quickly through the whole batch of dough. And so what I began to understand about this thing that that Mormons call the restoration or a movement of God is somewhere along the lines, some bad yeast, like I call it a bad apple, and entered the LDS barrel and it poisoned whatever God was trying to do. And I'm not even sure that it was God at this point that was trying to make that move. I think there's two scenarios that that at this point, if you're questioning the church, either it was a move of God that got corrupted, and we can clearly see, like with Brigham Young and polygamy and where that all entered in, and all of the gross like contention and the spiritual perversion and the sexual perversion that came into in the Nauvoo era, right? So either it's a move of God that got corrupted, or it was a corruption from the very start. And I don't know. I'm letting that sit in mystery. I'm okay with that because I know that my connection is with Christ. And so um, as I search for truth, I know where to find it. I can go directly to God and ask him what he wants me to know about any topic. And he can tell me what he wants me to know, and I can be satisfied with that without having to try to press and push and force knowledge, right? He's gonna give me what he knows I'm ready to receive and gonna guide me to those still waters and to those green pastures when I'm ready to receive. And so I just read this and I was just like, oh my gosh, that's that's what I started to see very clearly during the COVID era. I'm trusting the Lord to bring you back to believe I do about these things. God will judge that person, whoever it is, who has been troubling and confusing you. Dear brothers and sisters, if I were still preaching and he's talking about decision, but it's like anything that we're we're up in arms about that we don't understand, any doctrine, it's all it can all be settled. I only wish that those troublemakers who want to mutilate you by circumcision would mutilate themselves. He's basically just like this is a non-issue. For you have been called to live in freedom, not freedom to satisfy your sinful nature, but freedom to serve one another in love. For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: love your neighbor as. But if in showing love among yourselves, you are always biting and devouring one another, watch out, beware of destroying one another. So I advise you to live according to your new life in the Holy Spirit. And so that's what God invited me to do. During COVID, I was able to see those lines very clearly. I was open to questioning more than I had ever done before. So in 2021, we moved to Missouri. Um, we felt like God brought us here. I was still questioning and still learning and seeking, still attending, um, and very active in the local branch in West Plains, Missouri. In fact, in the stake, I had a calling in the stake young women's presidency. So it was right along in there where God finally was like, okay, you know enough. You know what this is about, and I'm gonna ask you to separate from this church. And for me, it was very natural. It was just like pulling weeds in a garden or retransplanting a plant. It was just like, that's the next step because Holy Spirit was teaching me and opening my eyes and bringing more clarity that it is all about Jesus. It is about our relationship with him. And so in the summer of 2022, um I had become connected with um Douglas Hatton, and he lives in just outside of Kansas City, and he is a um former RLDS member and now just kind of pastors a church, and they're they're just like it's basically a house church because they just get together and worship. And it all just came together very naturally. Like he was having a conference, inviting people outside to come and join them in worship. And he said, by the way, we're filling up our baptismal font if anyone wants to come and make a commitment with Christ. And I I just knew Holy Spirit's like, go. And so I went and I was re-baptized, and I did have a very profound and deep spiritual experience with Christ. I felt a burning of his bosom. I felt um just like on cloud nine spiritually, like on the drive home, it was as if like all of a sudden all the colors were brighter. I was filled with love for God, filled with like forgiveness for any any wrongdoing anybody had ever committed against me, like just totally filled with the love of God and just like wow. And so um in August of that year, I was, mind you, I was still in the stake young women's presidency. Okay. So I'm going to those meetings and like, you know, I have been rebaptized. So I just am filled with love and filled with like, it's gonna work out. I don't know where this is leading me, but I'm gonna get rebaptized. I'm gonna, I'm gonna renounce all the stuff, all the temple stuff, all the Freemason stuff, because I had started to study some occult uh symbolism and just understanding all of those things that are are are in the church that we don't see um that are very occult, very aligned with ancient religion and ancient pagan worship, which we don't even see because we're taught not to see it and not to question it. So one day I remember after I, after I was, I think it was before I was baptized. I'm I want to say it was like May of that year. Um I I was like getting breath and just just really felt like I don't want Masonic symbols on my body. And so I was like, God, is it okay if I like don't wear my garments? And he's like, go for it. Like, so I didn't put garments on that day, and I just felt so peaceful and so good. And and I felt like a layer of separation from between me and God had been like removed. And so I I didn't have any traumatic, any, you know, some people feel sad or whatever. I just felt joyful, I felt free. I was like, oh my gosh, I this is awesome. I feel like I could breathe spiritually. It was just this strange feeling. So anyway, and then June of 2022, baptized, so August of 2022. Um, naturally they had like reorganized the stake young women's. So I was let go of that calling. And I was like, okay, God, how do I leave? And he just said, leave quietly. Just leave, don't, don't make a big deal out of it, just leave quietly. And so I just went into my bishop with my husband there. My husband is still active. He um has his own journey and we work, and I'll go into that if you want to. But anyway, I just went to my bishop and I was like, okay, ask me the temple recommend questions. And he's like, Okay, started with God the Father. Yes, I believe God the Father, Jesus Christ, Holy Ghost. And I just was like, you know, not not as like not as I was taught, but yes. And then he went to Joseph Smith and I was like, nope, that's where I'm done. Like I I want out, and I just want you to do whatever you need to do. Because I I don't I don't want an interview with the sick president. I don't want anything. I just I just I'm done. I've thought about this for years. I feel like it's Holy Spirit leading me. So um I just want to be done. And so he tried to like bear his testimony of Joseph Smith and the restoration. And I was like, I just listen and I just I was so full of love. Like it was still, you know, within the two months after, and I was just like in love with Jesus, basically. I was just like, I'm good, I'm okay, and this is my next step. I know that this is right. I was like, okay. So it was like a month later. I think the I want to say that the stake president emailed me or something, I can't remember exactly, but he did reach out and I just said, Yeah, I'm good. Um, just go ahead and whatever your whatever your end is, whatever your process is, just go ahead and do it. So I received a letter in the mail from the church, um, with church, you know, the letter head saying that my records were removed, and I rejoiced. And then I later found uh a prayer so that I could renounce um covenants made in the temple, which sounds so like uh just wrong to to Mormons and to my family, but to me that was a very, very important part of my step and my journey spiritually is to renounce these um oaths and covenants that were made. I think uh that are made with the wrong God. Like I don't think it's I don't think it's the right God that we're making those covenants with in the temple. I think sealing people to people is uh borderline witchcraft. We don't seal people, we just are sealed to Christ. Um, and that is a witchcraft, a tool of witchcraft to seal people to people for eternity as a as kind of like a punishment, or I don't know exactly, but anyway, as I've as I studied kind of that side of things, and then the spirit's showing me kind of parallels and just saying, yeah, this is basically just weeding out um false doctrine, false beliefs, religious spirit, like getting all those things out. And the best way that I can describe it is how I feel now is about maybe nine months later or so, some sister missionaries were sent to um our house, and they sat down and just like talked to me and they said, How is your relationship with Christ? And I just said, Well, um, it's it's great. Like I I feel so good. And I feel like when I was in the church, it was just like a mile wide but an inch deep. And there were all of these things that I had to think about and, you know, spend my time on. And now that I've left the church, it's like an inch wide and it's focused on Jesus, and I'm going deeper and deeper and deeper in my faith and my relationship with him. And they just kind of were like, okay, well, that's good. There, there's nothing else that they could say about that, right? And I I genuinely don't have any like I I did feel very like protective, like I just wanted to like reach out to everybody and you know, warn them. And I'm I'm still kind of in that mode, but it's more of like, Holy Spirit is showing me a better way to do it. And I did ruffle some feathers in my family, my brothers and sisters. I'm currently not really welcome on the family chat because I I'm kind of the only one that can't share religious topics. Everyone else can share whatever article, whatever general conference talk, you know. But for me, I'm restricted to happy birthdays and congratulations, basically. And so I was just like, that's not the relationship that I want with my siblings. Like, if they if they can't allow me to share my perspective, and some kind of hurtful things were said and just done. And and so I'm working through that. And I've sent some emails out and just say, hey, this is my journey. I'm with Christ, like you don't need to worry about me. I'm you know, I'm good. So anyway, it's just a journey, and it's like um, it's just one of those things where uh like I love the title of your podcast, Clarity, because that's what it's felt like. It's felt like just this gradual unveiling, gradual, like um just peeling off of all the layers that I was given as as one who was born into a certain type of high demand religion. And you know, having those layers peeled and and basically, you know, not um, I don't know how to put it, like it it's it's more complicated, but also more simple. Like it's I shouldn't say complicated, it's it's more mysterious. God is more mysterious and more um like I'm understanding that I'm probably it's probably gonna take me an eternity to really know God, but but I can know him on a certain level, and it's very simple.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, it's understanding that you don't understand it all, but that's okay because Jesus is walking through it all with you. So he's going to give you understanding and enlightening and knowledge as you go. And just being okay with the process, there you're like not allowed to have a process. So it's being okay with the process and being okay with the unknowing. And yes, that alone is simple, it lets our nervous system. Rest in the Lord, and that is so healing. So, on the topic of healing, you kind of gave me a list of all the things you've been delivered from when we chatted the last time. So, tell me what you've been delivered from through all this experience.
SPEAKER_02Um, I've been delivered from certainty, from human certainty, and and trying to like protect that certainty, um just exactly what you said. Like, I feel like my nervous system can rest in the Lord because I don't have to know it all. I think when I was living in the Mormon faith, um faith was certainty, and certainty was faith. Right. And so as a missionary, I could explain, I could answer, I felt almost prideful in the fact that I could answer anybody's question of why we're here, where we're going, where we came from, even whether or not it was biblically based or not, like it literally, there are things in the Mormon church that have literally been made up just so we can feel certain, right? And so God is not that. He does not want us to be in that place of human hubris and certainty. He wants us to trust him. We are meant to walk by faith. And and faith means that we don't know everything. Faith means we need to trust that there is a loving God, that he does know everything, that he created us for a specific purpose. So I feel like I've been delivered from certainty. I've also been delivered from deception. Um and knowing that there is truth out there, that truth can be found, that light is real. It is in Jesus Christ. That truth, light, freedom is found in Jesus Christ. And so not, and also the fear of deception. So I'm not afraid of being deceived because I have a relationship with God where I can sit in the morning and I can say, God, what do you want me to know today? Or if something comes across my path, I can say, God, what do you want me to know about this specific thing? And he really gives me, I can sense and perceive the voice of God. And he leads me to scripture. He leads, he tells me, um, this is what you need to know. And it's all grounded in love, and it's all grounded in security and his love for me and my relationship with him, that I'm not lost to him, that his hold on me is greater than anything, that there is no nothing that can separate me from the love of God. And so I do not need to be afraid of deception. He's also delivered me from um trusting in the flesh and my even my own flesh and existing on my own understanding and other people's authoritative voice, I just can can feel equal with people. There's no hierarchy in the kingdom of God. Like we're all, we all have access to Christ, we all have a place, we all have a purpose. So I think he's delivered me from separation, from that us them mentality of, you know, like, uh, and and I think when I was in the Mormon church, I really tried to have that because I think that's a natural thing that we do when we love Jesus. We want to try to like, but there are no teams. You are on team Jesus, or you're not, right? It's just that's it. He's the only team. Everything else is just confusion and darkness, right? And so the enemy will always try to copy God and will always try to like, they can't create anything new. It's always there's nothing new under the sun, you know. So just feeling that feeling of wholeness and oneness and that there is no separation, that I can be with God and people aren't my enemy. I don't have to work against them. God's gonna, God is gonna take them. He's not done with any of us yet, you know. So that's my phrase. Like I have a daughter who has gone through um homosexual uh relationship, and she's trying to figure herself out and trying to decide who she is. And when I was praying about that, God is like, I'm not done with her. Like, why are you treating this like I'm done with her? I I'm in charge of this, and um you don't need to work. And so your job is just to love her. And I was like, really, I can do that. Like I can love, I already love her, right? And and that's so easy for me to do. And we have just loved her in and out of that relationship, and whatever steps, you know, I just know that God is in charge of spiritual growth in each individual. So God has delivered me from that separation, a STEM mindset, um delivered me of death, um, and and separation from him. I don't know, just it's just clarity on on that. And you know, right now we're in the middle of uh a loss of income. So I have a job, and my husband um was let go from his position in October, but we have not spent one month even worrying about paying our bills. God has provided for us, he has an interview tomorrow, and I feel confident that he will get that job because it is right in the nick of time where we are out of. And we've seen this before, and God is totally meaningful of our position and our situation, and he is just so, so good and so delivered us from um fear of uh not being taken care of and not having enough, right? Of of basically delivered us financially because we don't, you know, we do have debt, we have student loan debt, and we have other things. Um we still have a mortgage and all that, but I know that someday we will have freedom with our finances. We will be free from this usury financial system that is is demonic. It's not of God. Um, he doesn't want his children to live in lack or fear of lack. Um so I'm just excited for systems. I'm excited to see it all crumble down. I know there's gonna be some suffering, but um, if you're with Christ, there's no judgment for you. There's only judgment on the wicked. And that is such a peaceful feeling. Like no matter what happens, if you're with Christ, it will all work for your good. So like it's just amazing that I I you know that Christ has really set me free, and I'm just like making sure that I stay free. And I do that by just checking in with him, you know. What do you want me to know about this? What do you want me to feel? How do you want me to think? And we we have these two-way conversations, and it is such a such a joy. Like I just I love talking about Jesus, I love talking about God. Like I would spend 24-7 if I could studying and learning and just like sitting at his feet, and you know, so I don't know, but I I have a job to do. I go and I teach high school, and that system, it makes me sad a lot. Um, I come away with just like so sad about the amount of sexual perversion that is pressed on our children, the sexuation. Um, I I know probably four or five ladies who experienced um ritual abuse of one kind or another. Um, so all of these things that are coming out with the Epstein files and, you know, um it's all coming out. All that all that is hidden will be revealed. That is in the scriptures, that is what we're told in these days. And it's hard to bear sometimes. It's hard to like um hear about, but I feel like it's my responsibility to hear the witness from these people and just to know that there are so many people who God is quietly rescuing, and he's building up an army of spiritual warriors to fight this battle that we are are facing because it is a spiritual battle. So I think he has also set me free from um demonic oppression. Um I know what to do. I've had those experiences of having a visitor in the night and feeling like, you know, suffocated and and those things. I know what to do about that. I know how to protect my home and spirit. Um prayer is so powerful. Meditating on the word of God is so powerful. Worship of God is our biggest um weapon against the enemy. Um, glorifying and worshiping God and enjoying his creations and his um his world, right? So this this world and the powers of this world belong to Satan. He's ruling right now, but the earth belongs to God, and the earth is gonna be transformed pretty soon. And so I don't know when, but I I'm just excited to be delivered from um the beast system, you know. I'm I'm happy, I'm looking forward to that. Can't wait.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for sure. I I love that your story illustrates the walk with Christ and that it's truly about relationship and just having the courage to take the steps forward with Christ. And that's all that all of us can be doing in this place, and as we're learning what life looks like outside of the church now. So just sum it all up for us, Suzanne. How do you find clarity in your life now?
SPEAKER_02Oh, uh just with connecting, connecting to God each day, um, journaling, thinking, pondering, seeking out the good, the true, and the beautiful, and um seeking light. You know, light brings clarity. So just like turning on a light in a dark room, the darkness cannot overcome the light. And so wherever I'm fuzzy or confused, I take it to God and He leads me through and walks me through it and teaches me what I what he feels that I'm ready to know. Because there are things that I don't understand, and being okay and sitting with uncertainty, I think, is part of the walk. And we need to be okay with that and know that um all things will be revealed to us eventually. So I I think that's fine clarity. I find clarity and connecting with Christ.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I love that. We can find clarity through connecting with Christ because the light brings clarity. Thank you so much, Suzanne, for joining us on the Clarity Podcast. Thanks for having me.
